When is it time for new blood?

[brewsacks]

We've had buff orpingtons for 3 years now, and thi sis the first year we've had real hatching problems. In the past our broodies would easily hatch 14 out of16 eggs, and we never had problems with the chicks. This year has been different!

First we had 3 broodies... out of 30 eggs, we were left with 5 chicks. One was a part-time broody, so that was not a big surprise, but the other 2 really seemed to sit tight. At the end though, a few chicks made it out and then ran into other boxes with other mommies when they wanted to get warm. We had confused moms, and they both eventually got off before any more hatched. I thing there were as many as 8-9 that actually hatched, but we found 3-4 dead within a day or two. They didn't appear to have been killed, but we can't know that for sure.

Then broody #4 came along, and we went back to seperating her from the general populous, to avoid the confusion we had with 3. She had 16 eggs and sat VERY tight. at 22-23 days we heard peeping, but when we got visual, they didn't look quite as active as they should. At 25 days, we have 7 chicks, and mom is off the nest with them. Looks lik that's all we'll get, but even though she's off, we're in the middle of a heat wave... more could possibly hatch I guess. 6 chicks are out of the nest and active, but one was floundering around the nest. She has twisted legs. I can't imagine her lasting.

So the question is, do we need new rooster stock? The rooster we have is the friendliest we've ever had. He would only be 2nd or maybe 3rd generation. That part is so confusing to me. We originally had 2 roosters (and 10 hens). They were both horribly mean. We got rid of both when it was clear that we had at least 2 coming up (their sons). We butchered all the new roos but one, hoping one would be friendlier than 2. Indeed, he was. He fathered many chicks last summer that were just fine. This year, we're having low hatch rates, chick deaths, and now defects. Could all be coincidence, but is it?

As for the hens, we now have 7, and most, if not all, are last years' birds. We've had predator problems, and most of our flock was wiped out last year. These are the surviving chicks, and maybe one or two older ones. The younger ones (maybe all) would be this roo's doughters.

Anyone have any advice on how long a roo can breed without inbreeding problems? When do you need to bring in a new roo to keep things running smoothly. It just doesn't seem like it could be yet!

Thanks!
Krista

 

[cathiesue]

Please, oh, please will someone answer this question. I've been wanting to know too but couldn't phrase the question. Thanks Krista for asking it so well.
cathiesue

 

[bobzant]

As far as I know, as long as it's not brotherxsister then you don't have to worry about problems arising. Someone else please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is just what I have been told.

 

[kathyinmo]

Linebreeding or inbreeding is done with chickens all the time. I don't think that is your problem.

 

[Margitas]

We've had buff orpingtons for 3 years now, and thi sis the first year we've had real hatching problems. In the past our broodies would easily hatch 14 out of16 eggs, and we never had problems with the chicks. This year has been different!

First we had 3 broodies... out of 30 eggs, we were left with 5 chicks. One was a part-time broody, so that was not a big surprise, but the other 2 really seemed to sit tight. At the end though, a few chicks made it out and then ran into other boxes with other mommies when they wanted to get warm. We had confused moms, and they both eventually got off before any more hatched. I thing there were as many as 8-9 that actually hatched, but we found 3-4 dead within a day or two. They didn't appear to have been killed, but we can't know that for sure.

Then broody #4 came along, and we went back to seperating her from the general populous, to avoid the confusion we had with 3. She had 16 eggs and sat VERY tight. at 22-23 days we heard peeping, but when we got visual, they didn't look quite as active as they should. At 25 days, we have 7 chicks, and mom is off the nest with them. Looks lik that's all we'll get, but even though she's off, we're in the middle of a heat wave... more could possibly hatch I guess. 6 chicks are out of the nest and active, but one was floundering around the nest. She has twisted legs. I can't imagine her lasting.

So the question is, do we need new rooster stock? The rooster we have is the friendliest we've ever had. He would only be 2nd or maybe 3rd generation. That part is so confusing to me. We originally had 2 roosters (and 10 hens). They were both horribly mean. We got rid of both when it was clear that we had at least 2 coming up (their sons). We butchered all the new roos but one, hoping one would be friendlier than 2. Indeed, he was. He fathered many chicks last summer that were just fine. This year, we're having low hatch rates, chick deaths, and now defects. Could all be coincidence, but is it?

As for the hens, we now have 7, and most, if not all, are last years' birds. We've had predator problems, and most of our flock was wiped out last year. These are the surviving chicks, and maybe one or two older ones. The younger ones (maybe all) would be this roo's doughters.

Anyone have any advice on how long a roo can breed without inbreeding problems? When do you need to bring in a new roo to keep things running smoothly. It just doesn't seem like it could be yet!

Thanks!
Krista

Hi Krista
First i never use sister and brother to breed not even the father ,try to find diferent blood line.
For this year hatch you need to take the chicks out and put them in the brooder until all come out , if you don't do that the mother stand up for this high weather.
Try to get new birds different breeders to avoid the inbreeding

 

[Time-Out]

As Kathy said, I don't think that is your problem either. You've only begun to scrape the surface of line-breeding, so you wouldn't encounter problems this early on. Don't forget that you can pretty much assert that your chicks have each a different mother.

 

[WinklerFarms]

Inbreeding and line breeding are different. In line breeding you breed relatives but not closely related relatives. They do not use brother sister, father daughter, etc, etc. I would say get a non related roo and see what happens.

 

[brewsacks]

Wow... it's as I suspected! Lots of variety in opinion. For the record, these chicks would (some of them anyway) be from a brother-sister pair. The Roo and most hens all came from the same Original Roo (different original hens I'm sure for most).

I found a post here about line breeding, including a chart that everyone thought was just the cat's meow and SO helpful in understanding the whole thing, but of course it was an older post (1 yr old?) and the chart itself was no longer there. I guess deleted by moderators??? Does anyone hapen to know of this chart? Honestly, I would just like to understand how it works, not put it into practice. I'm not seperating off any hens, or branding their eggs as they're laid so I know who they belong to, or anything that intensive. I just want a healthy flock!

So replies were split right down the middle so far... can anyone else chime in? I'd love to get a better sampling of opinions across the board.

One more question to add to the mix... could excessive heat affect a hatch? Someone said the mom will get off b/c of the heat, but this momma really sat tight. It was amazing. I wonder if some of the eggs were scrambled

.

Thanks so much for the replies to this point!
Krista