Which dog breed is best to protect chickens?

[BJ]

My neighbors just got a great pyr rescue dog...about 1 year old. I was a little bit worried about what it would do to my chickens. Actually, I think this will work out better because the dog is fenced in (and so are my chickens), and the dog is intimidating enough to scare off other animals (cats, coons, etc.) and my chickens are now getting used to seeing/hearing the dog next door. I didn't realize this breed was a livestock guard dog...interesting!!!

 

[GoodEgg]

I guess I got spoiled in a way. With my first GSD I got very lucky. The people imported nice dogs from Germany and bred them. They wanted only males and she was a female, so I got her quite cheaply.

Her temperament was fabulous. When she grew up, I was interested in having a puppy from her, and eventually I contacted a professional handler/trainer/breeder who had imported his top foundation dog from a kennel he trained with in Germany. He paid about $10,000 for that puppy many years back.

After working my dog a while to check her temperament, he agreed to a breeding, which cost me 1/3 of the litter (incredibly steep fee if you count the cost those 4 puppies eventually sold for, LOL). But I got my little man from that litter, my top pick. And he was the most wonderful dog ever.

I agree with the point that American dogs are so over-angulated. Cosmetics have cost the breed much of what it was designed to do. I visited a couple of dog shows and was shocked to see nervous dogs snapping at people, ears taped to stand, and dogs so low-slung in the back they didn't move properly (in my eyes). Maybe I went to a poor quality show, or there was a particularly poor breeder there, but I was shocked.

Guess I wish I'd kept that line alive. I had a lot of people asking to breed to my male as he aged, but I didn't realize how special he really was, and I didn't want a puppy at that time as I was planning to start my own family soon.

I AM shocked at what people charge for dogs these days. True, you can easily get a very poor-quality animal bred with NO attention to temperament or health and be charged hundreds of dollars. And the idea of selling "designer dogs" which are essentially mutts for well upwards of $1,000 or $2,000 ... well, LOL. Not that mutts can't be good dogs too, but I never imagined people paying so much for one.

I'd call the guy who owned the sire of my dog, but I am pretty sure I can't afford his prices either, not to mention driving across the country.

Sorry, but it seems a silly situation to me. I made the commitment to first of all raise my daughter. I do work, and many hours, but I do it so that I can still be with her enough, so my income is a lot less than it might be if I took a different kind of job. But because of that, it seems impossible to afford a dog. Like I said, that just seems silly to me.

I feel like I'm getting too far off topic though, and I don't want to do that. Mostly I just wanted to say that I agreed with Ruth and Flufnstuff that GSDs can be absolutely fabulous guardians. Highly trainable, and gorgeous besides. My only concern would be that my young male had a pretty strong herd instinct as a pup, and he would have had to be taught not to herd chickens/ducks all day and worry the animals, but it wouldn't have been a problem for me. As long as you give them *some* job to do, they are ok. I used to work mine several times each day in obedience (I love training dogs!) and that along with play and exercise kept mine very satisfied.

I've always heard good things about Great Pyrenees and Anatolian Shepherds too, but have zero personal experience with them. Overall I think herding/guard dogs are an excellent choice, as long as their energy level isn't at the "bouncing off the walls" level of some of the smaller ones. Even then, if you are able to spend enough time with them, it might work well. I think the larger shepherd breeds in general are the best bet though. Just in my opinion, of course.

trish

 

[Mountain Man Jim]

Hi, I would like to clear one point that I have seen a couple of times on this post.

Great Pyrenees (and other LGDs) are not "herding" dogs and are rather low in energy level. The distinction is important because as a LGD they are expected to sit calmly with the livestock they are guarding. Though I don't think it's necessary for a LGD guarding chickens to be with them at all times, it is important that they don't attempt to herd the poor girls.

Make no mistake, my Pyr can move very quickily when she needs to. She may walk calmly into the house when I let her in, but when there's a fox (coyote, bobcat, jogger, deer, horses, noisy crows) on the other side of the fence, it's 100 lbs of flying fur in fully gallop

Sorry if I'm being too critical

Jim

 

[ruth]

In defense/support of German Shepherd's - a picture is worth a thousand words (taken today):

Doesn't matter where the chicks are free ranging - Rex is there. He's on guard all night and so far nothing has gotten a single bird even though the run is open topped and the coop door is left open at night and we have coons, possums, foxes, and even a panther in our woods.

With any animal, there are different behaviors even within the same breeds. Our four male cats and two dogs (one stray) all hang out with the free ranging chickens all day. However, my daughter brought her black lab over this weekend and I told her to let me know when she was coming so I could put my chickens up. She was positive her dog would not go near them and would be afraid of them. That dog saw those chickens in the run and immediately charged at and ran into the wire fence. Did it over and over and then ran around and around the fenced run (dumbest dog I know). My poor chickens had never had anything chase them before. Was probably a good lesson for them. They are so used to going right up to dogs and cats.

 

[Mountain Man Jim]

First, go Rex ... Good doggy.

Second, I have a thought that might sum up a few themes here. Though I love my Pyr and believe she's great at guarding the flock, she is a pure breed Pyr. I got here cheap because she was not show quality, but she still cost $400. That’s a lot, but rescue groups wouldn’t talk to us (fencing not high enough) and the shelters never have Pyrs. Plus, we were told we need a puppy to be able to train her to accept the chickens.

I now believe that there are plenty of other dogs that will work as a Chicken Guardian Dog (CGD, hey I just made that up). Namely a German Shepherd which should prove to be almost as weather proof as my Fluffy. And, I am beginning to suspect that puppy are not the best choice; they are not ready to protect the birds and have too much energy which they expend by chasing the birds. So, I would suggest any looking for a CDG to start by looking at the homeless dogs at a shelter. Their adoption fees are fairly reasonable when you consider the veterinarian care/shots they give the dog. Give one of the guard dogs a try. Heck, a good shelter should let you test drive a dog by bringing a chicken to the shelter and see how the dog reacts to the bird.

Jim

 

[suburbanhomesteader]

I have a lab mix who lived on the streets for 5 years before we took him in, had him neutered, and gave him some obedience training. He is wonderful with other dogs and with kids, but he will eat any small animal. He never barks; he just kills them and eats them down to the last hair or feather. I've seen him finishing off a raccoon, a possum, a squirrel, a rabbit, and alas, one of my black broilers who somehow escaped the tractor without me knowing about it.

He's not vicious; I think all those years in the street taught him to not pass up a meal when you see one.

My other lab doesn't give a rat's nose about the chickens; he barely even looks at them.

I think it's more of a personality thing than a breed thing. It probably has something to do with training, too, but no amount of training has slowed down Brownie's prey drive.

 

[Rosalind]

Great Pyrenees (and other LGDs) are not "herding" dogs and are rather low in energy level. The distinction is important because as a LGD they are expected to sit calmly with the livestock they are guarding.

Thanks for posting this Jim, it's important--my mother and auntie, upon meeting my Pyr, gave me a lecture about how I must not be feeding him adequately despite his puppy chub, because the dog only ran for short distances (say 50 feet at most) and only chased his ball three or four times before flopping on the ground and relaxing. They concluded that he was "tired all the time" because he napped a couple times per day after 30-40 minute walks.

They are definitely not frisbee dogs, and they will not play fetch indefinitely. I love this because I have a crazy schedule that gives me time to take the dog for short walks six times daily, but long hikes for hours on end might happen only once a week. This suits the dog's energy level perfectly, because a short jog is enough to wear him out for a while and he doesn't get bored and neurotic if he is walked 20 minutes and then crated for a nap. But if you are looking for a frisbee dog, or a dog to take to the park and play with the kids for hours, then a Pyr is not the dog for you.​

 

[ruth]

I believe there are three tricks to a great GSD:

1. Raise it from birth, with socialization and obedience training. We took Rex on our travels with us.

2. Provide lots and lots of exercise. Rex plays ball and frisbee so much every day his bottom canine teeth are worn down almost all the way but that dog loves to play and always has a ball, stick or pine cone in his mouth and is so well socialized he greets every stranger with something to play with. It's funny when delivery people are out there honking their horn because they're afraid to get out of the truck and there's Rex, wagging his tail 90mph with a ball in his mouth wanting them to play with him. FEMA workers really spoiled him when they were around after Katrina.

3. Give the dog a job. Rex goes and gets the paper, long hike to street, brings in the groceries and "guards" us, the other cats and dogs and, of course, the chickens. He really came into his own when I got those chickens this spring. He just adopted them and wouldn't let the other pets come near them and has never left our yard since. I don't think I would have been successful with him around them when he was a puppy because he had more energy than any living thing on this planet and there were many times I thought I would not make it through puppy hood and wondered what I had gotten myself into. I could not throw the ball enough for him - he never got tired. Now, at 4 years old, after several long throws on a hot day he won't return the ball and takes off for our pond where he dives in and stays till he cools off.

 

[GoodEgg]

Quote:
LOL Ruth, I think I know exactly what you mean there. There was a time ... when Kai was a pup, I did have some trouble with him. He was great with obedience, and everything I set him to, but when I worked full time and he was a pup, we almost didn't make it.

The third day I came home and found he had escaped confinement and destroyed everything on the coffee table and sofa table AGAIN, I told him in my most serious tone, "Dog, if you do this one more time, I'm going to take you in the backyard and shoot you." At the moment, I half meant it too. (He wasn't totally alone, btw ... having his mother and some toys confined in the hallway with him.)

The next day, I didn't confine him. Not to "trap" him, but because it wasn't working anyway. When I got home, nothing was touched. He was a near-perfect angel from that day onwards, with only his dominance and a few maturing-type behaviors to deal with (easily) later on.

I don't know if it was the threat or, more likely, the fact that he didn't handle the confinement well and so was fine without it, but I'm glad I didn't have to kill my dog! (Nobody get upset, I am sure I wouldn't have actually done it!) But he was so intelligent, so energetic, and so determined (as well as having a highly dominant personality) that I wondered a few times what I'd gotten myself into as well, and wasn't sure I was prepared to deal with a dog like him. I learned a LOT in raising him, though, and he turned out to be the best dog I've ever known. And after experiencing him, handling all other dogs has been a piece of cake!

All this talk has had me thinking of my boy a lot lately. I miss him more than ever now. But I sure enjoy remembering him.

Oh, and I have to agree with what you said about GSD's. And while it's true that a puppy's personality may be harder to assess than an older dog's, there are tests you can perform to get a good idea of many traits. Having owned him from birth and training him from the beginning made it much easier for me to shape him as he grew. I also took Kai almost everywhere with me. He continued training for years, learning everything I could think of to teach him. All those "chores" served as his "job" and gave him additional exercise, and helped keep him happy. He always tried to help me do whatever I was working on. (Note: never let a dog "help" you weed the garden ... they are just like little kids, pulling out all the plants you "missed"!)

trish

 

[Cara]

It's a great feeling to rescue a dog, 4 of mine have been rescues, but I have to disagree that a shelter is a good place to go looking for a healthy GSD. Hip dysplasia is bound to be more common than amongst dogs from a good breeder, and genetic health and temperament is a gamble. Obviously there are backyard breeders that overcharge, but a good breeder will always take their dogs back, so there is no reason for them to become homeless. I can't imagine how heartbreaking it would be to adopt a dog with a degenerative disease. When it comes to purebred dogs, you get what you pay for.

I've been very lucky with the dogs I have adopted. I've had a Bloodhound, a Black Lab/Golden, a Coonhound and a German Shorthaired Pointer. The Black Lab mix is an excellent search and rescue dog, with more try and more intelligence than her AKC counterparts in the group. My Bloodhound was also a SAR dog, but passed suddenly this September. When it came to looking for another Bloodhound, I scoured the shelters but could not find what I was looking for. In the end we got a puppy from a breeder, and although I feel guilty about not rescuing another dog, we had a specific purpose in mind for her. I had not even considered SAR when I got my other dogs, but got involved shortly after I got my first Bloodhound and it is my passion now. Training a SAR dog is such a commitment that there is not much sense in undertaking years of training a dog that lacks potential. The same goes for any kind of dog. It wouldn't make sense to spend months trying to train a Labrador to herd when you could get a Border Collie instead.

Shelter dogs, in particular mutts, make incredible pets, and sometimes you can get lucky and use them as working dogs too. If you have a set purpose in mind though, you are much better off looking for a dog whose breeding and temperament proves it has potential for the job.