Which feed should I continue buying?

[WhatTheCluck89]

Hello all

I usually buy from my local co-op the 17% feed on the left it is 2 dollars cheaper and has grit and corn and possibly other stuff it looks nice and the chickens love it. I do ferment it usually.
I recently got some bags from a larger store, and asked for "lay mash" which is what I ask for at the Co-op I usually go to. They gave me something that looks like pellets but ground up, no nice big pieces of grain and corn and no grit that I can tell.
Are they just grinding the corn and grains up smaller? It looks like if I try and soak it it will just turn into mush.
Now im not sure if the chickens even need the corn grains? I also was looking into making my own but that seems like alot vs the price and ease of me going to the store to buy the bag.
Judging by the protein, and what I've said about the feed am I paying for something they dont need in the first place? Should I just be buying the more expensive bags? And can I still ferment?

 

[FunClucks]

If I had to pick between the two, I'd go with the feed on the left, the 17% protein feed. The more protein the better if you care about the long term health of your birds. It has more protein (obviously) but it also has more calcium. Are you providing calcium and grit free choice to your birds? It might be something to consider to make sure they get enough.

The higher calcium amount in the 17% feed may lead to slightly stronger egg shells and better long term chicken health if you don't provide supplemental calcium (oyster shell), since if they can't get enough from their feed they start to use the Ca in their bodies.

The feed on the right should be fine if you grow your chickens for no more than 18m-2yr, and then retire (rehome or eat) those chickens and start over with a new flock. I think it is a pretty standard commercial feed.

As far as being good for fermentation, I couldn't tell you. But when given a choice and a minimal difference in cost, I always go for higher protein, and higher micronutrients, as I expect my egg laying chickens to live for years and die from old age. If I'm going to keep them anyway, I want them in good health and productive as long as they can be. I have kids, the hens have names, and we got attached.

 

[WhatTheCluck89]

If I had to pick between the two, I'd go with the feed on the left, the 17% protein feed. The more protein the better if you care about the long term health of your birds. It has more protein (obviously) but it also has more calcium. Are you providing calcium and grit free choice to your birds? It might be something to consider to make sure they get enough.

The higher calcium amount in the 17% feed may lead to slightly stronger egg shells and better long term chicken health if you don't provide supplemental calcium (oyster shell), since if they can't get enough from their feed they start to use the Ca in their bodies.

The feed on the right should be fine if you grow your chickens for no more than 18m-2yr, and then retire (rehome or eat) those chickens and start over with a new flock. I think it is a pretty standard commercial feed.

As far as being good for fermentation, I couldn't tell you. But when given a choice and a minimal difference in cost, I always go for higher protein, and higher micronutrients, as I expect my egg laying chickens to live for years and die from old age. If I'm going to keep them anyway, I want them in good health and productive as long as they can be. I have kids, the hens have names, and we got attached.

Yes I love my chickens I still have my first girls from when I first got chickens 6 years ago. I do love them and want them to have full healthy lives. I recently have been saving egg shells and wanted to add that to my fermented feed but maybe I can just offer that on the side( I bake and grind them into a dust).
I do not currently offer free calcium or grit so maybe thats something I will start doing.
Are egg shells a good source of calcium?

 

[WhatTheCluck89]

If I had to pick between the two, I'd go with the feed on the left, the 17% protein feed. The more protein the better if you care about the long term health of your birds. It has more protein (obviously) but it also has more calcium. Are you providing calcium and grit free choice to your birds? It might be something to consider to make sure they get enough.

The higher calcium amount in the 17% feed may lead to slightly stronger egg shells and better long term chicken health if you don't provide supplemental calcium (oyster shell), since if they can't get enough from their feed they start to use the Ca in their bodies.

The feed on the right should be fine if you grow your chickens for no more than 18m-2yr, and then retire (rehome or eat) those chickens and start over with a new flock. I think it is a pretty standard commercial feed.

As far as being good for fermentation, I couldn't tell you. But when given a choice and a minimal difference in cost, I always go for higher protein, and higher micronutrients, as I expect my egg laying chickens to live for years and die from old age. If I'm going to keep them anyway, I want them in good health and productive as long as they can be. I have kids, the hens have names, and we got attached.

And thank you for your quick response

 

[FunClucks]

Yes I love my chickens I still have my first girls from when I first got chickens 6 years ago. I do love them and want them to have full healthy lives. I recently have been saving egg shells and wanted to add that to my fermented feed but maybe I can just offer that on the side( I bake and grind them into a dust).
I do not currently offer free calcium or grit so maybe thats something I will start doing.
Are egg shells a good source of calcium?

That's awesome that you have some girls so old! I feed all my egg shells back to the chickens - if it's from my flock, I see no need to bake them. They can go back the same day I crack them, or dry on the counter for a few days. Then I smash them slightly with my fingers into ~1/4" pieces. That's enough. You don't even have to smash them, the girls will tear them apart and fight over them and eat them even when provided as half a shell pieces.

You want the shell pieces to go in the crop and stay there for a while, so dust is not the best if you can avoid it (from the info I found). It goes thru the hen too quickly for them to get much calcium out of it. I was researching why they provide oyster shells as 1/4" rocks instead of dust or some other size.

Yes, I'd offer grit and oyster shell (calcium rocks) free choice for sure, just to be sure they get enough. They will only eat what their bodies need. Egg shells are an excellent source of calcium, but you'll need to provide more than just the shells from the flock - some of it gets used up in making the shell, so egg shells plus oyster shell is really what you want to do. I crush any egg shells I get slightly, and add it to the oyster shell bin in each coop. They fight over the stuff.

And you may consider occasionally feeding them a bag or two of 20% protein chick starter or all flock feed, especially during a molt, to help with recovery - the extra protein is super helpful. I occasionally take globs of freezerburned meat, boil it, and lob it into my run. They have a blast pecking it apart and it really helps with their protein consumption in the winter.

 

[WhatTheCluck89]

That's awesome that you have some girls so old! I feed all my egg shells back to the chickens - if it's from my flock, I see no need to bake them. They can go back the same day I crack them, or dry on the counter for a few days. Then I smash them slightly with my fingers into ~1/4" pieces. That's enough. You don't even have to smash them, the girls will tear them apart and fight over them and eat them even when provided as half a shell pieces.

You want the shell pieces to go in the crop and stay there for a while, so dust is not the best if you can avoid it (from the info I found). It goes thru the hen too quickly for them to get much calcium out of it. I was researching why they provide oyster shells as 1/4" rocks instead of dust or some other size.

Yes, I'd offer grit and oyster shell (calcium rocks) free choice for sure, just to be sure they get enough. They will only eat what their bodies need. Egg shells are an excellent source of calcium, but you'll need to provide more than just the shells from the flock - some of it gets used up in making the shell, so egg shells plus oyster shell is really what you want to do. I crush any egg shells I get slightly, and add it to the oyster shell bin in each coop. They fight over the stuff.

And you may consider occasionally feeding them a bag or two of 20% protein chick starter or all flock feed, especially during a molt, to help with recovery - the extra protein is super helpful. I occasionally take globs of freezerburned meat, boil it, and lob it into my run. They have a blast pecking it apart and it really helps with their protein consumption in the winter.

Ok great thats alot of good information thank you! I'll start offering oysters and grit.

I do give them meat / leftovers. I work in a restaurant- its crazy what people throw out/ what the restaurant throws out.

If I sanitized and baked them, Do you think I could I use oyster shells from the restaurant?

 

[FunClucks]

Ok great thats alot of good information thank you! I'll start offering oysters and grit.

I do give them meat / leftovers. I work in a restaurant- its crazy what people throw out/ what the restaurant throws out.

If I sanitized and baked them, Do you think I could I use oyster shells from the restaurant?

Sure you could use oyster shells from the restaurant. Folks have had a hard time breaking them up into useable size for the hens and capturing (not losing) the smashed bits. If you can do that, you can use the oyster shells no problem. Even the larger sizes, if the hen can try and pry bits of the shell apart, it might be good enrichment for the run. I would just rinse really good and bake, then smash.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hello all

I usually buy from my local co-op the 17% feed on the left it is 2 dollars cheaper and has grit and corn and possibly other stuff it looks nice and the chickens love it.

It sounds like it is not ground up into a powder as you can see the individual parts. A lot of people use feeds like that but I'm not a big fan. The different components can separate and the chickens can selectively eat certain things and not eat others. I'm not sure they are all getting a balanced diet that way. I'd imagine when you ferment it that issue goes away so maybe that is not a problem for you.

They gave me something that looks like pellets but ground up, no nice big pieces of grain and corn and no grit that I can tell.
Are they just grinding the corn and grains up smaller? It looks like if I try and soak it it will just turn into mush.

Yes, that is called crumble. When they make certain chicken feeds, they grind up all the ingredients into a powder. That is called "mash". To make pellets they mix mash with water to form a paste and then extrude it through a die, then flash dry it. To make crumble they partially crush the pellets. The nutritional value depends on what the original ingredients are.

When they form the pellets and make the crumbles the ingredients are mixed up and stay mixed since they dried that way. When commercial operations feed mash they typically mix it with water to form a paste so the ingredients again stay mixed up.

If you soak pellets or crumbles in water they will turn into a mush. Chickens usually really like that.

Now im not sure if the chickens even need the corn grains?

Chickens do not need individual ingredients, they need a balanced diet. Some nutrients they need could be protein, calcium, fiber, fats, or others. Corn can provide some carbohydrates, protein, and certain vitamins and minerals. Other ingredients can provide those same ingredients in place of corn. It doesn't matter what the ingredients are so much as long as the right proportions of the correct ingredients are used.

I also was looking into making my own but that seems like alot vs the price and ease of me going to the store to buy the bag.
Judging by the protein, and what I've said about the feed am I paying for something they dont need in the first place?

You are in Canada, your labels are not as extensive as the ones I'm used to. I don't see anything out of line with either.

Should I just be buying the more expensive bags?

Some people seem to feel they need to spend a lot of money on their chickens to show how much they love them. I've been chewed out on here because I've suggested lower cost options for some things. I don't see anything wrong with either bag of feed.

And can I still ferment?

Yes, if you wish.

I do give them meat / leftovers. I work in a restaurant

I don't know what proportion of their overall diet are those leftovers/meat. I'd try to avoid salty foods, by the way. A lot of salt isn't good for them. In general we recommend that their bagged feed should comprise at least 90% of their diet. That's because the bagged feed is a balanced diet, including a lot of micronutrients they need. As a rule of thumb, they should be able to clean up the "other" stuff in 15 or 20 minutes to keep the daily intake down and they still get the right amount of those micronutrients.

Meat is fairly high in protein. If yo are feeding them much extra meat on the side, they are probably getting a higher percent if daily diet of protein than is shown on either of those labels.

If I sanitized and baked them, Do you think I could I use oyster shells from the restaurant?

Oysters are pretty common down here in South Louisiana. The shells from shucking will start to smell pretty badly after a few days so you probably do want to clean and maybe bake them. Your issue is crushing them. The chickens will not be able to break off pieces from the shell. You'll need to break them into pieces no larger than the size of a green pea. They can handle that.

The oyster shell will be ground into a powder in their gizzard, just like corn, egg shells, or other hard stuff will be ground to a powder. It doesn't matter if they start out as chunks or powder, it will all be reduced to a powder form in the gizzard. The chicken's digestive system will take nutrients from it.

Good luck!

 

[Debbie292d]

Hello all

I usually buy from my local co-op the 17% feed on the left it is 2 dollars cheaper and has grit and corn and possibly other stuff it looks nice and the chickens love it. I do ferment it usually.
I recently got some bags from a larger store, and asked for "lay mash" which is what I ask for at the Co-op I usually go to. They gave me something that looks like pellets but ground up, no nice big pieces of grain and corn and no grit that I can tell.
Are they just grinding the corn and grains up smaller? It looks like if I try and soak it it will just turn into mush.
Now im not sure if the chickens even need the corn grains? I also was looking into making my own but that seems like alot vs the price and ease of me going to the store to buy the bag.
Judging by the protein, and what I've said about the feed am I paying for something they dont need in the first place? Should I just be buying the more expensive bags? And can I still ferment?

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I'll just toss what we do here for our silkies as we've been through a few different kinds of feed, and we watch nutrition closely as they're prone to vitamin deficiencies.

Everyone here, from day-old chicks to ducks, eats Kalmbach's All-flock crumbles.

Their scratch, occasionally fermented, is Kalmbach's Henhouse Reserve. For the fermenting, I also buy 50# whole oats and 50# hard red winter wheat, and put 25% of each of those to 50% of the HHR. I add a little flax and chia seeds too.