Wholistic Advice Wanted for Sick Bird

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by TinaLoui, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. Wyorp Rock

    Wyorp Rock Enabler

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    I'm sorry to hear about Snowy. I do not really know anything about Budgies.
    You may also want to post your questions/concerns on the caged birds forums - people that keep this type of bird may have some suggestions as well. https://www.backyardchickens.com/forums/caged-birds-finches-canaries-cockatiels-parro.57/

    I also do not know much about holistic care, so hopefully @Hen Pen Jem or @coach723 will chime in with their thoughts.
    Keep in mind, my comments are my own thoughts, I am not a vet nor an expert and I also do not mean to sound harsh.
    Birds that are sick need to be kept warm. I do see that you are trying to do that, but she may need more or continuous heat. If you have room in her housing, look into using a small heating pad that she can get onto/snuggle into. I'm not a fan of heat lamps, but a small reptile light may also be an option.

    She needs to be hydrated well, then add food. Since she has not been eating well, a liquid bird formula like Kaytee Baby Bird would be good. While it sounds good to make a mix of your own, sometimes a specially prepared formula works best - they are nutritionally formulated to support bird health.

    I would change the water every day, not every 3 days. As for adding ingredients to the water, that is up to you, but some birds will refuse to drink that. Provide 2 water cups, one with plain water and the other with the aloe. This way she has a choice.

    I would also provide her with fresh feed daily. Put in a small amount, what you may think she will pick through or eat. This would be in addition to being tube fed.

    It's very possible that she has liver disease, your suspicions may be correct. Yellow poop can be from a number of things from liver failure to infection. Antibiotics may help - you could try the Baytril as suggested, but that is not a holistic remedy as you requested several times. The vet offer antibiotics but it sounds like you did not want to go that route - if you have changed your mind you may want to give them a call and see if the offer still stands - they may be able to provide you with the correct medications that you need.

    Lastly, I do understand that she is a pet and part of the family. After you correct the feeding/getting good nutrition into her and if you decide to give antibiotics - give yourself a timeline for improvement. If she does not rally, then it's time to let her go. Birds will hang on until they just can't (like anything). It's our responsibility as their keeper to make the decision about what is best for them, not what is best for our heart/emotions.

    You probably have seen this, but it may help you determine the amount of fluids/feeding she needs per dayhttps://lafeber.com/vet/tube-feeding-birds/

    I wish you well and hope the best for Snowy.

    Just my 2¢
     
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  2. TinaLoui

    TinaLoui In the Brooder

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    I'm sorry dawg53 I've been feeling a bit criticised lately for my choices and may have come across as though I was criticising your decision to euthanise your animals/birds. Some would accuse me of cruelty for not "taking her to a vet" (even though I kind of have) and giving her their antibiotics and yet others would criticise me for not "putting her down". I guess what I was trying to say was a disclaimer that I have made decisions for her healthcare with the same consideration that I would my family...and not decisions made decisions purely based on financial reasons. I do agree with you though that while we certainly are responsible for the wellbeing of all living creatures, it is not good to place animals/birds as being of equal or higher value than humans. However I interpret this to mean that if it came down to our survival or that of a living creature we should choose to save the human's life. I'm not sure how that relates to deciding whether its OK for a human to suffer but not an animal....that becomes a rather complicated and controversial topic for discussion. So in changing the topic....what sort of symptoms do your birds typically exhibit when they have reached the natural end of their life? Ie. How do you know when it's something you're not doing right and its a sickness in their younger years and when it's more attributed to old age and natural causes?
     
  3. Helloworld

    Helloworld Songster

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    I have birds too. Here is what I myself would do.

    1- rule out raw cut oatmeal being fed or any other type of dry food that will absorb liquids in digestive system or crop.

    2- make up 1 gallon of electrolyte as you would for chickens - 1 little pack to one gallon of water into spring water.

    3- buy some MSM powder and give about 1/4 teaspoon per quart. You can mix with electrolyte water. 1 gallon about 1 teaspoon. It is natural sulpher and it is used to eliminate toxins in a body system and it helps with feather growth. I use it for my hair, nails and it also leaches metals from your body.

    4- I have 9 birds. I enhance their food with pellets but they still get seed and millet sprays. I do not believe in following feed hypes. Think of it like this... Pygmies in Africa eat ground corn because that is what they have to eat. Their bodies are used to that. If you were to introduce something new, they would not do well because their digestive system can’t handle something they are not used to.
    Birds are the same way. If I introduce anything but seed, I do it a a suppliment because bird’s digestive systems are used to what seed does. Introduce pellets and these same birds do not realize they need to drink more to keep their crops from becoming impacted.

    Most parakeets live off of millet. That is their go-to food for survival.
    The base of all of my birds diets are Ecotrition seed with the smallest pellets for a bird.
    All of my birds from my finches to my parrots get the same size pellets... I use the Zupreem small bird fruit blend and mix into seed. They will not eat Zupreem seed mix. I started them on Ecotrition and they won’t eat anything else.
    My larger birds do not care for the pellet size that fits them and never have. Also, pellets are extruded feed something that birds are still getting used to being fed and a lot of nutrients are cooked out when put into a pellet. The pellet rage became a hit when fruit flies became a problem in bird seed not because it is better.

    All of my birds also get egg food everyday yr round in a separate cup for missing protein and feather shine.

    And last but not least, did you remember grit?

    I will be praying for your budgie. I hope any of this may help. Most important would be electrolyte and Msm so fluid can be built up and help MSM to clean out its liver. Good luck, and never give up until the bird says so and listen for God’s whispers of instruction.

    Also, you can buy bird heaters that can be hung on cage next to where she likes to perch. Not real expensive and something I would definitely invest in.

    Your vet placed your bird into an incubator to warm it. Just like we use for our chicks to hatch. I like the sq metal bird heaters that attaches to cage because they can get away if they like.

    I will pray for the best. They live 5-10 yrs so heres to a better, healthier life!
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  4. TinaLoui

    TinaLoui In the Brooder

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    Thankyou for your advice. That has been somewhat helpful. I do ahve a few clarifying questions....

    I've been keeping her in direct sunlight during the daytime which seems to be working. Nighttime is the trickiest as it is costly to run heating devices all night. She has decided to sit on the floor of the cage now so hopefully she will be able to snuggle better with the heatpack I have provided for her. How long it stays warm for is a different matter. I'm reluctant to buy expensive equipment if she only lives for a matter of days anyway. So hard..plus until now she has refused to sit on anything but her perch so I'm not sure how a heating pad would work for that? The sock draped over the perch worked well but it does get poop all over it which causes its own problems. Out of curiosity though what is the difference between a reptile light and a heat lamp and why aren't you a fan of heat lamps?

    Ok so focus on the hydration levels first then food. That is good advice. I actually wish I had kept up the syringe hydration days ago. After all the fuss she kicked up I thought I was just stressing her out so I left her be but now that I've felt how slim she has become I wish I had done differently. She seems to be hydrated again now today which is good but whenever I feed her the poop ends up looking abnormal as a result of the fresh foods I have added. A liquid bird formula sounds good. Can you get those in small quantities? Again, I don't want to get bulk if she may not live long. I bought some rice thinking I might try making up a cooked rice mixture??

    Happy to change water every day...it just means I am throwing out the added ingredients so it becomes expensive really fast. Admittedly I also didn't change her water every day previously...though we would add ACV every second time we changed it. Is it bad to not change the water every day even for non-sick birds? I feel bad about that because I didn't know.

    She seemed to be drinking it but her yellow urine indicated otherwise. I wish I had cottoned on to that sooner as well.

    I am concerned if I offer two seperate water containers (I only really have one available anyway) that she won't bother to drink from both and will then miss out on the medicines she needs. She has plain water at moment and I will syringe the rest and monitor her urine.

    I have left out the aloe until I see her weight pick up and the poo not going abnormal from the food I've been syringing. Left to the millet the poop looks good...aside from the urates and urine component that is.

    I'm not sure if fresh birdseed daily is necessary if I am blowing off the husks?? Also her seed container is deep so it is filled high enough that she doesn't have to reach down deep into it.

    Regarding deciding when to let her go...thankyou however my decision not to euthanise my bird is not based on selfish motivations but based on a moral decision made by our family regarding our own pet. What people decide to do with their own pets is their decision to make. I don't expect everyone to agree or understand but I would rather keep any further conversation strictly to the bird's healthcare be that to recover or be it palliative. As a family we have prepared ourselves that this may be a palliative care situation and as I am not working I am in a position to provide this care for her if this is what it is. I have also seen the benefit to my family's grieving process in being able to say goodbye to their beloved pet and be there for her in her final hours if this is what it it has come to.
     
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  5. coach723

    coach723 Crowing

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    So sorry about your budgie. I think you've gotten good advice, and have done just about everything possible. The only thing I could add is that I have used this with sick chickens with ascites (fluid build up in the abdomen often associated with organ failure), which has given some relief, albeit temporary as the underlying condition remained, it's aloe with herbal extracts mixed in. http://www.lilyofthedesert.com/product/aloe-herbal-detox-formula/
    I don't currently have a bottle to look at how I figured dosing, but I give to an average large fowl hen (chicken) 4 ml daily for 7 days, via oral syringe. Also, it has to be refrigerated after opening, so I allow the syringe to warm before giving it, either let it come to room temp, or warm it in some warm water, don't give it cold to a sick bird.
    Since the life span of budgies in captivity is usually 5 to 10 years, up to 12 with excellent care, though some do live longer, it may just be age, and the associated declines, that is catching up to her. You will know, I think, if the time has come to choose to end the suffering. I usually make that choice when I do feel there is suffering or simply no real quality of life, they usually will tell us if we are paying attention. I wish you the best, no criticism here at all, we all must do as our own conscience dictates.
     
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  6. Wyorp Rock

    Wyorp Rock Enabler

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    You could always fashions some type of cave out of a heating pad. Google heating pad cave for budgies and look at the images (a couple of ideas posted below). A reptile lamp is usually smaller/I was thinking about a ceramic heat emitter lamp instead of heat lamp - a bird needs to be able to sleep - a normal heat lamp provides light at night.

    Check your large pet stores like PetSmart, you can pick up a container of Kaytee for less than $10.00

    I realize add ins to water, food, etc. can get expensive. It's best to change water daily. A bird picks around in their cage (chickens peck around in dirt). What they pick/peck at comes off the beak and gets into water and food. Personally I provide fresh water daily, water containers are cleaned several times a week.



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  7. Helloworld

    Helloworld Songster

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    If your parakeet has decided to be on bottom of cage it may be nearing time to go. I raise several varieties of birds and in my observations when they go to the bottom they are preparing for death. I pray not but it signals they no longer have the strength to perch any longer. Electrolyte will make her drink. If she does not, be careful syringing water because you can drown them easily. I personally would give her some time to prepare and let her rest at bottom of cage. Use a dry wash cloth heated up in microwave if you need to to keep her comfortable. When and if you see it is time, all she will need will be having you prop her up onto your chest directly on top of your heartbeat so snowy knows someone is there. I truly am sorry for such a hard loss. Animals are so much to us and it is noted even more when you have lost control and God has taken it for you.

    We can all choose our path but ultimately, God chooses the footsteps to travel your path.
    Snowy is such a lucky bird to have a human who can lay down their heart and fight with everything they have just because they consider him a family member. You will get a brick in heaven for your suffering and selflessness because of snowy and he will be sitting on top of it waiting for you, a human who may have overcompensated to others but loved dearly by a bird who has an entire family fighting for him. You got this, just listen to the whispers. I feel your sting and loss of control and my prayers to help you ease everyone’s suffering will be added to my others. Love from all of us here I am sure... anytime you need us, we are all going to be here and help you through... thats what bird people do!
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  8. TinaLoui

    TinaLoui In the Brooder

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    :love:hitThankyou 'Helloworld'...your messages have welled up my eyes with tears of gratefulness. Thankyou so much. I really needed to hear those words and thankyou so much for your prayers. We too are a praying family.

    I read on another forum, by a fellow wholistic minded person that sometimes colloidal silver is not enough if the bird is really really sick and that her seed may have been dead dry seed rather than fresh "green" seed that would sprout if given the chance. I feel just awful knowing this and mad at the same time that the supermarket can sell birdseed that is past its best before date without having to place anything on the label. :rantI was also informed that you don't need a prescription for antibiotics for birds and that my local pet store that specialises in birds may stock it. I rang them as soon as they opened this morning and while they were out of stock they were so happy to sell me some of their own anitbiotics they have for their own birds...Vitafarm Triple C AU$15 as well as some Spark and some Coccivet they had already opened and half used. All of this would normally cost about $60-70 and they sold it to me for about $30. I was very blessed. Especially considering I would have had to pay a minimum of $80-$130 just to get antibiotics alone from the vet...another $150 if I paid them to administer it to her for 1 day. The store recommended I empty out everything I have been giving her for now and just give these three things in her water supply and syringe it to her 2x per day every 3 days so as not to stress her out...or if her urine is yellow and indicating dehydration. She scared me today when I looked in her cage and while she was nice and warm sitting in the sunlight and no longer fluffed up she had flopped down on to her neck and belly. Thankfully after I removed her into the shade she picked up...but it was very concerning.

    I also discussed with the store that I have decided to change her homemade formula from fruit and vegies to a protein mix as I am concerned the yellow urates is from lack of nutrition/anorexia not fatty liver and I think the fruit/vege is causing diarrohea. I asked if they thought a baby formula would be best but they said they would usually recommend an egg and biscuit mix but they were out of it and that my homemade scrambled egg with flaxseed oil, walnut and skinned almond flour (kept in fridge) blended with water sounded good. I am also tube feeding her freshly juiced raspberry which she seems to like. Her poo though has been still looking dark and messy though today so I am at a loss whether or not tube feeding her is doing her any good or whether I should just leave her to her seed. When she is so skinny as she is it is hard because I just want to pick her up quickly but the same time her little system is not handling it that I may have no choice but to back off a little and see whether she gets better...or she doesn't.

    Her white heatpack is so messy I have had to wash it and it is not yet ready to go back in the cage that I tried a warmed up white handtowel rolled up but not recognising it she freaked out about it...so that didn't help.

    The holding her on my chest....I have been doing that a few times and it has reminded me of giving kangaroo care for a baby...I think she really seemed to enjoy it all snuggled up in a towel...but as her wings aren't clipped and she can't be trusted flying at the moment I have had to hold her there and so it can be hard to know if she is enjoying it or just to exhausted to care where she is. Though she will make distressed calls if she really doesn't like something! I wish I could hold her all evening but I'm equally concerned that too much handling may distress her also. :oops: Everytime I go to pick her up out of the cage she carries on about it until I hold her up to the side of my face and reassure you.

    Thankyou again for your prayers and your support. I was hoping a chicken forum might be the right place to find likeminded people. :love
     
  9. TinaLoui

    TinaLoui In the Brooder

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    I just read out your message to the whole family. It means so much especially when others have been so nasty.
     

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