Why dub in OEGB and MOdern Game?

[ButchGood]

NYREDS. You have a point there. I will definitely look at some Dutch Bantams. I still have a hard time understanding that dubing is what makes a OEGB. The auction I got my 2 birds had about 50 pair going to the auction table. Not one cock was dubbed. These birds were going for $12 to $55 dollars a piece. You made some valid points that consider pondering, but I'll have to pass cutting my birds unless they are headed for the table.

 

[ChickensAreSweet]

Very interesting thread. I had always wondered too why they dub. Thanks everyone.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I still have a hard time understanding that dubing is what makes a OEGB. .

All breeds were created by selective breeding. They are not accidents. They were created for a reason by people that knew what they were doing.


There is a lot more to a breed than just color or pattern. Many of those things are directly related to the function of the breed. That can be anything from a utilitarian purpose like egg laying or the table or climate to purely ornamental purposes. I'll use a Delaware as an example because it’s easy. Delaware were created as a meat bird. Things like skin color and feather color for carcass appearance. Conformation to get the cuts of meat you want. NYReds is much better at this that I am so I’ll quit with that example.

Some things about the breeds were not about function though. The show breed standards were developed and organized by people passionate about the breed but they were developed so they could compete against each other in shows. What better people to set the standards than people passionate about that specific breed? Body shape is a big part of that whether for meat or eggs. But what difference does it make what color the bottoms of the feet are on an Ameraucana? Not much if you are looking for blue egg production but a whole lot if you are showing them.

The things that make a breed are what is required for that breed. Dubbing is required for OEG. Yellow skin is required for Delaware. A certain body shape is required for a rock.

The reason the game birds have to be dubbed is because by tradition the game birds were dubbed. That had a specific purpose because of why they were developed. The rules for showing require a game rooster to be dubbed. Tradition is not very likely to change.

If dubbing had anything to do with frostbite protection, why don’t you normally dub your Rhode Island Reds or Delaware? If you think it really is important to dub those breeds for frostbite protection, try dubbing a rooster from those breeds and take it to a show. See how well you place if you’re not just immediately disqualified. People can rationalize all they want about why they are dubbed but it just boils down to tradition. To me, anything else is just rationalizing.

There are many things people do that are part of good animal husbandry that someone unfamiliar with what and why it is done will consider cruel. How cruel and inhumane is neutering or spaying a dog or cat? Totally barbaric!!! But there are some people that understand why it is done so maybe it’s not quite so barbaric to them. There are a whole lot of things going on with animal husbandry that fall into the same category.

 

[NYREDS]

Wouldn't this cause them alot of pain? just for a show standard?

It doesn't appear to. When I finish dubbing a male & put it down on the ground it usually either starts eating or drags a wing & treads a female.

 

[centrarchid]

I dub in part for frostbite protection. My gamebirds roost exposed to conditions that keepers of fluffy-butt fowl do not realize. Additionally, many breeds where frostbite can be an issue also have single / wildtype combs. Comb type is very important with respect to frostbite risk and wildtype comes are most vulnerable, especially with males. If birds in even slightly degraded health, then frostbite risk is compounded. This is experince based where not all birds so kept were dubbed.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Centrarchid, do you dub all your single combed roosters or just the game? Have you noticed a difference in the single combed game roosters versus other single combed roosters or is it just the conditions your games are in?

The real question. Is there something special about them being Games that causes you to dub them rather than other single comb breeds?

 

[centrarchid]

Centrarchid, do you dub all your single combed roosters or just the game? Have you noticed a difference in the single combed game roosters versus other single combed roosters or is it just the conditions your games are in?

The real question. Is there something special about them being Games that causes you to dub them rather than other single comb breeds?

All my games are single combed but I also have some California Greys that are also single combed. The latter have not been dubbed by me so frostbite tends to take care of that issue partially at risk of complications of infection. It largely the business of a single comb having more surface area relative to blood flow that keeps it warm.

I do not dub games for looks since I do not take them to poultry shows but used to dub to conserve weight when birds were competitive. Combs are heavy display organs that hamper endurance in a scrap. Present interest with flight also impacted by comb mass and how it affects center of gravity. Comb mass is similar to that of egg in reproductive tract. Such loaded birds can not fly as well. My birds can fly very well and has been of interest to me for some time as to what promotes and inhibit flight habits our games used to engage in on walks. Flights where not always predator avoidance or in relation to roosting.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’ve seen some of your posts about training them to fly long distances. So you are dubbing to help with aerodynamic issues, not because Games are more susceptible to frostbite than other single comb breeds. It just didn’t make sense to me that Games would be more susceptible to frostbite than other single combed breeds.

So the reason the Standards of Perfection require a Game to be dubbed is purely their tradition of why the breed was developed. The requirement to be dubbed has nothing to do with frostbite protection but dubbing can help in frostbite protection of any single combed breed. You just can’t show the others breeds if you dub them.

 

[centrarchid]

I’ve seen some of your posts about training them to fly long distances. So you are dubbing to help with aerodynamic issues, not because Games are more susceptible to frostbite than other single comb breeds. It just didn’t make sense to me that Games would be more susceptible to frostbite than other single combed breeds.

So the reason the Standards of Perfection require a Game to be dubbed is purely their tradition of why the breed was developed. The requirement to be dubbed has nothing to do with frostbite protection but dubbing can help in frostbite protection of any single combed breed. You just can’t show the others breeds if you dub them.

The tradition explanation fits well with birds used for show or kept as yard ornament games. Some are also working birds despite legality issues and are dubbed for that purpose. The way games are kept, especially at higher latitudes most certainly disposes any comb and wattles birds to frostbite. I am not a fan of the for tradition reason and would rather see the full phenotype if birds are to be shown. Comb quality is something I look at when trying to assess a birds health without actually handing it.

I am not training them to fly long distances, rather getting them to do so under conditions I can actually film. They can fly much farther than videos indicate but such are either not predictable enough for camera setup or background makes viewing impossible. I have had flights well over 1000 feet (horizontal) but cannot get anything beyond launch to show up in recordings. The training gets them to fly where entire flight visible which has very particular lighting and background requirements.

 

[aaronj7040]

Very interesting topic. I just recently got into OEGB and have been going around & around with family over the whole dubbing thing. I understand their arguments concerning putting the animal through unnecessary pain & stress, but I also know for a fact--- that if done properly, it has no noticeable negative effects on the bird or production. As was said earlier, it's no worse stress or pain than spay or neutering your dog or cat, but nobody's get'n all tore up over that !!! Just my opinion...I plan on dubbing the birds I pick as "keepers", that might go to show, but any that are PQ, I'll leave them as they grew. I know that the first thing I look at on Game Fowl is it's station, then straight to the combs and wattles, then eyes, etc....If it isn't dubbed, it is still a beautiful bird, but it doesn't classify as a "Game Bird" to me unless it's dubbed...It just doesn't fit the picture I paint in my mind when I hear the words "Game Fowl" if there are combs and wattles...Unless it's a Malay or Shamo (Oriental Game Fowl). People spent many a long day and evening studying, watching, learning, growing, going broke, arguing, going to jail, being ostracized, and a million other things we take for granted when we see these birds today, but they did it all with a clear objective in mind...The culmination of many a man's (and women's) work and life's blood went into developing the Standard Of PERFECTION in these birds, and anything less than that standard is just that IMO !!!