Why is Purina feed "bad"?

[salzw59]

I bought Dumor from Tractor Supply for my first bag. It looks like my other options locally are Purina, Nutrena, which I can get either variety Country Feeds or Nature Wise at my closest feed store, or Big V feeds from the local Farmers Co-op. The local natural foods store also sells organic chicken feed, but it is considerably more expensive.

Are there any thoughts on the Nutrena or Big V? I noticed the Nutrena was about $5.00 less per bag than the Dumor and it is the closest feed store to my home by about a 30 minute drive, so if it is good, I thought I would try it when I need to buy again.

Sally~

 

[ChicKat]

As I understand it, all the big makers have multiple mills. It's not hard to see how the ingredients and freshness might vary from one batch to another. I've had that chemical smell with Purina, but never stale. I've gotten stale-smelling Dumor and Nutrena.

What didn't you like about the stuff from the local feed mill?



ahhh the local place was a "Full-O-Pep" in the same town where I bought the feed. There seems to be so little choice. I ended up getting an 18% pullet grower, and I'm using that as 'flock feeder' since I have mixed ages in there now and a rooster.

If Purina has multiple origination points for their feed...then an operator asleep on the job one day forgets to put something in -- and a whole batch is inferior feed...IMO.

 

[Clay Mudd]

If Purina has multiple origination points for their feed...then an operator asleep on the job one day forgets to put something in -- and a whole batch is inferior feed...IMO.

I suppose that's possible. Another is that ingredients can always vary from batch to batch, depending on what's cheap at the time of purchase. Almost all commercial feed is formulated that way; the goal is to meet the nutritional claims at the least possible cost. This isn't entirely bad; a feed formulated with a very specific ingredient list would cost more. Anyway, I think that's one reason for the feed being variable. And even the quality of some of the available ingredients probably varies seasonally.

 

[Zany Chick]

I'm more confused than when I started reading this thread.

 

[Roxannemc]

HI
Have to say one thing.Corn......some dogs very large one cant have a high pro diet with lots of protein as its bad for their bones.
So in their case corn as a first ingredient is best.
Makes them grow too fast and then prone to breakage and tendon problems.This from some long time well know breeders of xlarge dogs
That said ..very small dogs need the high pro diet.
They have such small stomachs they need to get as much protein as possible b/c they can be prone to hypoglycemia if they get low sugar and use up too much of their energy.(This by long time Chihuahua breeders)
.
So corn as a first ingredient isnt ALL bad for ALL dogs.
I have used Purina Chow for dogs for 40 years.and my cats Friskies(Purina product)
All my dogs lived to the prescribed age for their breeds.I never had an illness from any that was more than a few days and that very very seldom if ever.NO allergys either and being an animal lover i have had a LOT of dogs in 40 years. Usually a few at a time, lots of breeds .right now 11.
4 Mastiffs and 6 Chihuahuas and one Chorky (one old cat and 11 chickens).All grown adults and all very healthy.Dogs get a spoon of Alpo mixed in their food each meal

I dont know about for chickens but for dogs Purina seems to work well for me.

Some other may be better ,who knows, but it doesnt seem to be "poison " or not to my animals it hasnt been (my old cat eats Friskies canned and bag both.
(NOTE: he also eats lots of wild things too mice birds rabbits etc) Hes 11 yrs old. and seems as young and spry as ever.
My other cats ate it too and the last 2 lived to 13 and 14.they were inside cats( no wild things).

By the way Science Diet which the vets all carry here has corn for the first ingredient too I believe or at least its not a meat or meat by product .

 

[Roxannemc]

HI
Have to say one thing.Corn......some dogs very large one cant have a high pro diet with lots of protein as its bad for their bones.
So in their case corn as a first ingredient is best.
Makes them grow too fast and then prone to breakage and tendon problems.This from some long time well know breeders of xlarge dogs
That said ..very small dogs need the high pro diet.
They have such small stomachs they need to get as much protein as possible b/c they can be prone to hypoglycemia if they get low sugar and use up too much of their energy.(This by long time Chihuahua breeders)
.
So corn as a first ingredient isnt ALL bad for ALL dogs.
I have used Purina Chow for dogs for 40 years.and my cats Friskies(Purina product)
All my dogs lived to the prescribed age for their breeds.I never had an illness from any that was more than a few days and that very very seldom if ever.NO allergys either and being an animal lover i have had a LOT of dogs in 40 years. Usually a few at a time, lots of breeds .right now 11.
4 Mastiffs and 6 Chihuahuas and one Chorky (one old cat and 11 chickens).All grown adults and all very healthy.Dogs get a spoon of Alpo mixed in their food each meal

I dont know about for chickens but for dogs Purina seems to work well for me.

Some other may be better ,who knows, but it doesnt seem to be "poison " or not to my animals it hasnt been (my old cat eats Friskies canned and bag both.
(NOTE: he also eats lots of wild things too mice birds rabbits etc) Hes 11 yrs old. and seems as young and spry as ever.
My other cats ate it too and the last 2 lived to 13 and 14.they were inside cats( no wild things).

By the way Science Diet which the vets all carry here has corn for the first ingredient too I believe or at least its not a meat or meat by product .

 

[Jadnils]

I always believed that corn meal as the first ( or near first) ingredient was not good for animals that don't normally eat corn, such as dogs. They can't digest it as well, sure, they will eat it and live, but, not be as healthy as they could be and possibly develope allergies or problems they might not if fed a more suitable diet. I also believe the bit about certain breeds need higher protein especially the more active they are etc...too much protein or not enough is bad for anyone.
I feed my dogs a brand that used rice instead of corn because it is easier to digest and I have not had any issues. I have stayed away from brands such as Purina because I don't believe they use the best ingredients in their feed. I also heard the same thing pertaining to their chicken feed so I switched to something else ( I cannot remember the name because I dumped it into a big bin).

 

[ivan3]

Zany Chick wrote: I'm more confused than when I started reading this thread.

Ah, the beginning of wisdom Almost all commercial feeds will keep the chickens alive (if they don't go on hunger strike when crumbles are suddenly changed out for pellets...). However, over time, and trials of various `brands' of feed folks develop a sense of what works best for them. As has been mentioned, the stuff in the same manufacturer's bag in Vermont might not be coming from the same mill as another bag sold in New Mexico. One shipment might have sat too long out in semi trailer storage outside the feedstore, etc. There is no final wisdom, there is only one's senses (determining `freshness' of feed - response of poultry to feed). Any, egregious, current problems with brands can be found here: http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/default.htm Anyone wishing to dig into Poultry Nutrition at the `little lower layer' should bookmark this tome (very good for the appendices, alone): http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=2114 (Nutrient Requirements of Poultry Ninth Edition). Just wanted to say that we've yet to have a problem with the Purina Mills Game Bird Line (one bag with too many fines - immediately replaced for free - was probably riding at the bottom of the pile in some truck). Both the Startena and Layena still contain animal protein. (Startena tag - always check the paper tags):

 

[Nambroth]

"Plant Protien Products"? "Grain Products"? "Processed Grain By-Products"? "Animal Protien Products"?

What vague ingredient descriptions. I am not knocking your feed, and I respect that everyone has reasons for feeding what they do, for sure. I just far prefer knowing what I am actually feeding (in much the same way I prefer to know what I'm actually eating in a product). I could guess about what these specific ingredients mean all day long and never really know for sure. I once contacted a feed company to ask exactly what their plant protein products were and what their by-products were and they declined to tell me. This is especially frustrating for people that have allergies to some grains and legumes commonly used as protein and filler in feeds.
I can only guess that not labeling specific products is for a few reasons... perhaps they are not keen on their average customer knowing what the quality of their top ingredients is? Or perhaps the formulation changes depending on what is available at the lowest costs... which is understandable, but no less frustrating if it means that the nutritional content changes for the customer depending on what the company adds. This would be less frustrating if it wasn't the main bulk of the feed components.

I trust my feed far more when they list specifically what the actual ingredients are. Then I can at least make an informed choice. Even when they list a 'product' they let you know what it actually is (e.g. "Roughage Product (organic wheat middlings)") I know it's a 'fancy expensive' organic feed, but honestly I'd be happy to buy a normal feed if only they would openly label their feed and stopped putting so much trash into it.

INGREDIENTS
Organic Field Peas, Organic Corn, Organic Oats, Organic Wheat, Calcium Carbonate, Fish Meal, Organic Alfalfa Meal, Organic Flaxseed, Organic Rice Bran, Sodium Silico Aluminate, Dried Organic Kelp, Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Yeast Culture, Roughage Product (organic wheat middlings),Organic Sunflower Oil, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Menadione Nicotinamide Bisulfite Complex, D-Calcium Pantothenic Acid, Niacin Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Manganese Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Dried fermentation product of Lactobacillus acidophilus, Dried fermentation product of Lactobacillus casei, , Dried fermentation product of Lactobacillus plantarum, Dried fermentation product of Enterococcus faecium, Dried fermentation product of Bacillus coagulans, Dried fermentation product of Bacillus licheniformis, and Dried fermentation product of Bacillus subtilis.

 

[Zany Chick]

"Plant Protien Products"? "Grain Products"? "Processed Grain By-Products"? "Animal Protien Products"?

What vague ingredient descriptions. I am not knocking your feed, and I respect that everyone has reasons for feeding what they do, for sure. I just far prefer knowing what I am actually feeding (in much the same way I prefer to know what I'm actually eating in a product). I could guess about what these specific ingredients mean all day long and never really know for sure. I once contacted a feed company to ask exactly what their plant protein products were and what their by-products were and they declined to tell me. This is especially frustrating for people that have allergies to some grains and legumes commonly used as protein and filler in feeds.
I can only guess that not labeling specific products is for a few reasons... perhaps they are not keen on their average customer knowing what the quality of their top ingredients is? Or perhaps the formulation changes depending on what is available at the lowest costs... which is understandable, but no less frustrating if it means that the nutritional content changes for the customer depending on what the company adds. This would be less frustrating if it wasn't the main bulk of the feed components.

I trust my feed far more when they list specifically what the actual ingredients are. Then I can at least make an informed choice. Even when they list a 'product' they let you know what it actually is (e.g. "Roughage Product (organic wheat middlings)") I know it's a 'fancy expensive' organic feed, but honestly I'd be happy to buy a normal feed if only they would openly label their feed and stopped putting so much trash into it.

INGREDIENTS
Organic Field Peas, Organic Corn, Organic Oats, Organic Wheat, Calcium Carbonate, Fish Meal, Organic Alfalfa Meal, Organic Flaxseed, Organic Rice Bran, Sodium Silico Aluminate, Dried Organic Kelp, Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Yeast Culture, Roughage Product (organic wheat middlings),Organic Sunflower Oil, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Menadione Nicotinamide Bisulfite Complex, D-Calcium Pantothenic Acid, Niacin Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Manganese Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Dried fermentation product of Lactobacillus acidophilus, Dried fermentation product of Lactobacillus casei, , Dried fermentation product of Lactobacillus plantarum, Dried fermentation product of Enterococcus faecium, Dried fermentation product of Bacillus coagulans, Dried fermentation product of Bacillus licheniformis, and Dried fermentation product of Bacillus subtilis.

So what kind of feed is that label off of?