Why no washing/disinfecting eggs?

[rebelcowboysnb]

I usually wash all mine with very hot water.

When I see people preaching to not wash them I assume they are still relatively new at incubating an haven't learned the hard way yet.

 

[BlacksheepCardigans]

Quote:
There are MANY studies that show salmonella in backyard flocks. That shouldn't surprise us, since salmonella is everywhere.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/4099148 is one study, but if you look at these search results you'll see that it's everywhere, all over the world. Salmonella and chickens go together.

Now as far as hatcheries go, videos I have seen show the attendant pulling out a drawer and there seem to be alot of unhatched eggs. Knowing the business end of things, I know that hatcheries can afford to set millions of eggs and toss alot of unhatched eggs and still make a profit. My point being yes they wash their eggs but that doesn't mean they are getting better hatches than you are at home.

Hatchability in commercial facilities is around 90% for broilers and I believe somewhat higher (93-94) for layers. All are on "shipped" eggs, since the commercial broiler and layer strains are bred in different facilities and then trucked to the hatchery. So they do, on average, seem to be doing better than we are.​

 

[BlacksheepCardigans]

Quote:
Oh, absolutely they do. I'm not saying that no eggs hatch or anything like that.

What I'm saying is that we seem to have certain "rules" or assumptions - like don't wash hatching eggs, or a 50% hatch is what you should expect - that don't stand up to the science. Why should we be OK with a 50% hatch? Why shouldn't we be trying to push it higher? Why are we OK with so many early and late deaths? The commercial egg industry, which is far from perfect, does do us a huge favor because it researches EVERYTHING. Millions and millions of dollars go in to maximizing hatchability and minimizing transmission of disease from generation to generation. We who have backyard flocks, it seems to me, should be using every bit of that to our advantage. It's free and available and why not use it. We have the huge privilege of being able to keep our chickens in reasonable conditions, which they can't do, but sometimes I think we assume that because our birds are not in a giant breeder building we can ignore everything else. Just pick up the dirty egg off the floor and throw it in the incubator, as though because the poop is in our backyard it's not poop anymore. Receive dirty eggs from across the country and incubate them in un-santizeable styrofoam, as though that feather stuck to the egg you just got through the mail can't possibly have Marek's because you saw a picture of their coop on photobucket.

I am about the least germ-phobic person in the world, when it comes to normal use. I WOULD crack the floor egg into a pan and cook it. I'm talking specifically about incubating/hatching, and about the oft-repeated rules like "as long as you don't wash off the bloom you'll be fine."

 

[HHandbasket]

Lots of good things to consider when the time comes for us to engage in hatching and raising chicks.

I agree, I think we should go into this with the intent to hatch as many healthy birds as possible... I also agree in that I don't think a 50% hatch should be acceptable, but then again, I am only learning at this point.

I'm very grateful for whomever started this thread and for all the people who have responded. I had never even thought about whether or not to wash hatching eggs, but I'm sure it is something that would have come up when we ARE ready to try hatching. At the present time, we do not wash the eggs we eat until it is time to eat them, though I will gently wipe them off with a dry paper towel before putting them in the fridge--and I have gotten OUT of the habit of reusing my egg cartons for that very reason. We are now using compostable egg cartons anyway. Besides, the eggs are never around long enough to get old or go bad.

 

[deerman]

Quote:
You make great points....when i was a kid , i set up dads old sears incubator...watched it liks a hawk temp. humdity, even turn those eggs by hand.....every thing by the book....dad rather let his gamehen set the eggs.....even my Dad was surprise my % of hatch was highter than any of his gamehens.......so yes we can improve on nature.

 

[Erica]

I'm not all that up on hatchery practices, but my understanding is that sanitising eggs is largely about preventing vertical transmission of diseases like mycoplasma. In fact sanitising eggs was the way mycoplasma was removed from commercial flocks (dipping in antibiotic solution). In any case salmonella is often found in the core of the egg where washing can't help.

I tend to think there's no need for sanitising if you're just reproducing stock or breeding backyard birds, unless you're actively trying to eradicate something like the above.

Good hatches come from well fed birds laying well shaped eggs with strong shells. I almost never see blood rings, and the best hatch I've had from posted eggs came from the furthest away (about 1000km) and were smeared all over. I set them anyway though I was concerned... Every one hatched on time.

I wouldn't bother washing, personally, but I doubt it does a huge amount of harm either. But it won't eliminate salmonella. Scrubbing under running water... Now that would probably reduce shell quality.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Incubator size an down time has something to do with it too. If you have a small incubator that you use every now an then then its no big deal to put unwashed eggs in it an sterilize the incubator between hatches. But mine is large with eggs hatching every week so shutting it down an cleaning it means a 3 week gap in hatching, not to mention how much work it is to actually clean it. Its just easier to try to clean everything going in than to shutdown an clean out something I shouldn't have put in in the first place.

 

[blefky]

Even the best research will have unaccounted for variables, and these may well influence results. It's also important to read any research with a rather critical eye before accepting the findings. Who conducted the research, how was the research conducted, what alliances/affiliations might the researchers have that may have "influenced" their findings. It takes time to read critically, and there's a lot of psuedo-research out there, so we need to approach information thoughtfully. In our hurried lives, it's easy to give a quick glance to this or that research, and simply accept it, but all research is not created equally.

 

[Muggsmagee]

There is nothing better than a good debate.

Sorry this is newsy...my brain goes on tangents. (This article pertains to eating eggs...but is fun to peruse. http://www.motherearthnews.com/Sustainable-Farming/1977-11-01/Fresh-Eggs.aspx )

I am all for science, comparative studies, research, etc., etc. The key to this debate is we are not "quite" comparing apples to apples...even when we are discussing hatching chicken eggs.

The hatcheries have expensive, high quality equipment and MUST maintain a higher level of preventative care due to the astronomical amount of chicks they hatch daily, compared to Mom and Pop Smith who (like myself) have your run of the mill styrofoam incubators. If the hatchery did not disinfect and wash their eggs they could have some serious problems on their hands, and potentially kill hundreds of thousands of chicks through contamination (that is HUGE money!)...AND their massive incubators do not come apart readily to be sanitized. Anyone who has personally seen these hatcheries (or footage) knows the cramped environment in which their breeders are kept. The hatcheries have to abide by Federal regulations and deal within that structure because they breed on such a mass scale they can also breed diseases and the like on a mass scale! (There is the exception of small scale breeders...but they usually have higher end incubators, too. So let's strictly compare commercial to home hatching.)

I can only go from my personal experience...yes I have had bloodrings in my hatching eggs, and yes I refuse to wash my eggs. My understanding is you can not rule out every other possibility of termination and base the findings of a bloodring solely on bacteria permeating the unwashed/nondisinfected shell. There are just too many factors...the parents could be old, the egg could be old, the subpar quality of the incubator plays a huge role in incubation, yes it could be a bacterial thing, and yes it could be bad timing on the mating. (My ADD just kicked in...my doctor just told me about a study...over half of human pregnancies end in miscarraige in the first month and most times it goes undetected. Why can't something similar happen in the chicken egg?) The hatcheries have fancy gadgetry, bells and whistles, humidity control, or single stage incubation, self regulating temperatures....they tend to have better control over their environment vs the backyard breeder/hatcher. Their feeding, egg collection, sets for hatching are all down to a science. It has to be.

It can not be ignored that because chickens have become domesticated livestock, and through the last century given hormones, antibiotics, and lord knows what else along with over breeding, we have slowly weeded out their natural defenses to certain bacterias and diseases. I am finding a lot of backyard chicken owners are not medicating their chickens just to make their flock stronger and more resistant to the plethora of contaminants (in the form of diseases) they fall prey to. Chickens are susceptible to everything it seems. We have crow, barn swallow and sparrow issues here. Our flock could get something from a bird flying overhead and transmit disease to the egg through wild bird poo that falls in their runs. You never know.

For those of us that try to hatch with incubators, of course it is not the equivalent to the natural environment of a hen doing it herself, we try to simulate what the hen does naturally. That's risky in itself. I have 2 styrofoam incubators. They are a nightmare to work with. Regulating the temperature can be tricky, keeping the bator humid is tricky, rotating the eggs, not opening the hatch too many times, keeping the room free from drafts, there are so many variables of human mistakes that can take place when hatching at home. I've had one bator spike to 108 degrees, and the other drop to room temp of 72 degrees for no apparent reason. I lack the bells and whistles of an expensive model.

Blacksheep, you mentioned junglefowl don't live in a 4 x 4 box and can hatch their eggs in a bacteria free "virgin" earth. (Loosely quoted.) You can not possibly stand by that. The earth (in this case topsoil, forest litter and the like) is FILLED with bacteria, parasites, and scat/poo/fecal matter, etc. There is beneficial bacteria and there is harmful bacteria. Did you know birds in the wild poop where they are? Even if that means near or on their nest? Have you seen a wildbird nest before babies have been hatched? The nests can be littered with excrement. Not always, but can. The chicken waste and egg come from two different tubes in the chicken, but exit out the same vent. If a chicken can hatch a chick from an egg with a little poo/debris on it, so can we. The bloom is a protective barrier...that is a fact. Is it going to prevent every harmful thing from entering into the fertilized egg? Of course not.

If the hatcheries were working in an apples to apples environment such as ours, or at the very least a study was conducted in a conclusive, controlled way...same hatching eggs (1/2 washed and disinfected the other 1/2 left w/ bloom and smears), same equipment, same environment, etc. Then we could draw a better conclusion.

The point in all of this is... YES, you CAN wash/disinfect your eggs before you hatch. AND YES, you CAN forego washing off the bloom and take that egg from the nest box to the incubator. I take to hatching eggs in a less intrusive way...I don't need to tamper with my eggs. It just isn't necessary. I have had over 90% hatch rate with my own eggs this summer, and less than 10% with shipped eggs most recently. But I have to deal with my cheapo bators. We can't impose our views onto others as if they SHOULD or SHOULD NOT wash/disinfect their hatching eggs. It clearly works both ways. Everyone can find their preference. That's okay.

If I get the Brinsea 190 Cabinet incubator I want for Christmas...I'd be happy to test this all out! Sounds like a fun study.

 

[susan-marjorie]

I'll be interested to read what the more experienced have to off