Worms and Sudden Illness??

[KCNC06]

She does have a dish of water and feed in the crate. Well, on the floor in the bathroom today. I started thinking maybe she wasn't moving around because she wasn't really able to flap around much in the crate and maybe she just needed some extra space. I put sheets down on the floor in the bathroom so it's not so slippery for her. Still, she wasn't even standing on her own this morning. When I went in to check on her, before I moved her to the bathroom, she didn't respond to me at all. Up until this morning she would talk to me when I opened the door. This morning I had to open the crate door before she even moved her head. I did get her to drink 4.5 teaspoons of water through the dropper though.

I didn't see anymore wormy looking things in her poo this morning. I had changed her bedding last night before I went to bed, there was plenty of poo with green bits, but no stringy looking worms. I've picked all over her looking for mites or lice and haven't seen anything. I tried looked again last night but I think she was tired of me picking at her all the time. Earlier in the day yesterday she let me check all around her face and head and didn't seem to mind at all. I'll be pretty grossed out if she is covered in lice or mites and they end up in my house. After reading more about Wazine online, I'm a little concerned that giving it to her may have made her more sick. It says not to give it to underweight or sickly birds. Of course, if I didn't give it to her and she had worms she would have died from the worms.

Maybe I should treat her for mites/lice this evening if she's still alive when I get home. I don't have Sevin dust though...is it just the regular garden variety Sevin dust? That just seems weird and dangerous. How to you prevent it from getting in their eyes/nose/mouth? Put a little breathing mask on them? Would it be safer to sprinkle her with DE since she's already so weak?

The rest of the girls seem to be doing great. All of them came running out of the coop this morning yelling for food. And they're laying eggs like crazy. I'm pretty sure all 6 of them are laying now, or else someone is laying 2 a day. There are seriously eggs everywhere in that house. Last night when I closed them up there were 4 new eggs just dropped on the floor, and at least 2 new eggs up in the nest loft. Which brings up another question about Wazine. The warning stuff about it says not to use it in hens laying eggs for human consumption. Is that warning just because of the waiting period after treatment, or does it mean you can't eat the eggs ever again? I've seen warnings like that before and was told that it's mainly addressing people who have lots of chickens and sell the eggs because they'd lose money during the period where they couldn't sell the eggs. The chicken doctor said that the only kind of dewormer that she could find that didn't have an egg warning, and therefore is safe to use for laying hens is "Piperazine". She was going to look into the dosing for me.

 

[KKatknap]

Suebee, you have been a wealth of kindly delivered information...I am totally saving this thread info for when I need it!

KC - hope your girl keeps improving! I think you are a good chicken mommy! Nursing them through stuff is hard work!

ETA - I think if you don't see any mites, I wouldn't treat her for that until she gets her strength back up. But see what suebee says

 

[Pine Grove]

Quote:
Tell the Chicken Doctor that Wazine is Piperazine..Wazine is just the brand name

 

[suebee]

Wazine is piperazine. Discard eggs for 2 weeks after treatment. What I do is just boil them and feed them back to the chickens sometimes. Just don't eat them yourself.

DE: Yes, yes!! Didn't know you had any. If you do use Sevin, get the 5%. I've used it on day old chicks with no problems. Many her would say find a poultry dust with a permethrin base, which is somewhat safer. Might try Tractor Supply. But since you have DE, use that.

I would stop the Wazine, since it's been 2-3 days. Continue with the antibiotic for a few more days.

A easy and quick protein food is tuna fish and egg. That's also wonderful for extremely harsh moulting.

Sometimes chickens get extremely depressed when taken away from the others. I had my rooster in the house and tried to get him to eat and drink all day, which he refused. I put him outside with the others at dusk and he ate, drank and crowed. Maybe as a last resort put her back with the others and see what happens.

You're doing such a great job, just remember that if she does not pull through. I've been there many times, with outcomes both good and bad, but knowing I did my absolute best gives me comfort in situations that take the ultimate downward turn.


KKatnap, thank you so much.

 

[KCNC06]

Quote:
Really? Well that's just weird. She was looking in her...whatever the animal version is of the physician's desk reference book, to see what kinds of dewormers were safe to use in layers.

I still feel terrible for not noticing, or suspecting, that she was sick earlier. I pick her up and carry her around regularly, I guess I just don't really feel her up.

Her feathers seem a lot different than the other chicken's. Like they're longer or more dense or something...kind of like a long haired cat vs. a short haired cat. A long haired cat has a lot of fur to hide how skinny they might be. I'm not giving up on her yet, though I think I may be preparing myself mentally for the possibility that she's not going to make it. I've been mixing a bit of Nutri-Drench in with her water (this should be a link to the ingredients: http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/assets/label_info/16796.htm) to give some addition nutrients since she's not getting much. I'm thinking about heading back to Tractor Supply this evening (assuming she's still around this afternoon when I get home) to get a packet of Durvet Vitamins & Electrolytes (http://www.durvet.com/DS/250_DS.pdf). I'm not really sure what the difference is though. I was just thinking that if the Nurti-Drench isn't doing it for her, maybe this other stuff will. I don't know....obviously a little desperate.

 

[KCNC06]

Quote:
Yes, I do have DE. I've been using it for months mixed in with their feed. Obviously not enough to prevent worm infestation though.

I'll give her a little dust bath with it when I get home and, assuming we're done with rain for a few days, put some out in the pen so the rest can take a dust bath if they want. They seem to enjoy the dust baths almost as much as my chinchillas did.

I had actually considered that she might be lonesome/depressed being inside by herself. She and our Barred Rock hen (Chicken Little) seem to be best buddies. I think I'd rather keep her inside where she's going to be warmer though, maybe I should bring Chicken Little in to spend the evening with her. Which of course leads me to another question. Is it going to be too hard on her body (or their bodies assuming I bring another chicken in) to go from the house back out into the yard? I have a heat lamp on in the coop all the time since it's been so stinking cold. The eggs were freezing and cracking before we installed the light and I was getting cold just thinking about them being out in that at night. I remember when I was little we had a rabbit or two die from shock after being moved back outside after spending time in the house. I think our highs are only supposed to get into the 40's this week.

Thanks for all the help, suggestions, support and encouragement!!

 

[suebee]

You could either bring Chicken Little in, or take hawkface out to the coop since you have the heat lamps. As long as she's around other chickens. It's not really that cold out, it's the WIND! Ughhh!

 

[KCNC06]

I've turned into a wimp about cold, I'm originally from Upstate NY. Now anything below 50 is freezing to me!!

I think Chicken Little's going to have to come in, probably more for my benefit than anyone else's. If I brought Hawkface out to the coop and she died out there I'd feel guilty and blame the cold. Plus (this is absolutely disgusting to me) when something got into my parent's coop last summer and killed most of their chickens, the survivors were eating the dead ones!! Whatever got into the coop must have been small and brutal because there were quite a few dead bodies out there. Dad was quite surprised that the ones that lived started eating the dead ones so quickly. If Hawkie died, I'd hate for any of the others to take a taste of her and get whatever she has if it's something other than malnourishment from worms.

 

[KCNC06]

I'm confused again. Chicken doc is saying that the prohibition of certain treatments in laying hens has to do with the absorption of chemicals and storage/build up of the chemicals in some body parts like in the eggs. I haven't been able to find anything saying how long after treatment you need to wait to eat the eggs again (other than stories of what everyone does regardless of directions), I've just been able to find stuff about meat withdrawal. Personally, I don't care what the packaging/drug company recommend. I understand that a lot of times with things like that it's just because they haven't done enough testing or research. If others have eaten eggs 2 weeks after treatment with no harmful side effects, than I'll trust those results! I'm more concerned about what to tell the people who have gotten eggs from us in the past and are asking about future eggs. Especially the ones through work who also know chicken doc. I guess if she's saying they're not safe for a month, I should just wait a month to give them away around here. Of course, she's also telling me I should treat the flock again in 30 days...which would mean no give away eggs for 2 months!

What do you think?

 

[suebee]

Yes, bring Chicken Little in. If Hawkface perks up then we'll know she's partly depressed from being alone.
About the Wazine. It says "don't use within 14 days of slaughter" As for the eggs, it says don't use in egg producing hens.
I, and most others agree that the chemical will be out of her system and eggs after 14 days. And yes, I'd re treat in 2 weeks so you're talking a month before consuming the eggs. Eprinex pour on is supposed to have 0 wait time and eliminate both internal and external parasites. I use wazine 1st, then Eprinex in 2 weeks. I am wary about eating the eggs right away after Eprinex, don't care what anyone says. I allow 1-2 weeks after treatment of Eprinex before consuming the eggs.
I'll try and find this really good Eprinex website as it pertains to poultry uses and facts.
Let me know how Hawkface is doing.