Agreed. Know what to look for and know what to stay away from.
“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.”
--Benjamin Franklin--
Would Orpington Breeders Weigh In, Please?
- Thread starter Pickled Plaid
- Start date
Agreed. Know what to look for and know what to stay away from.
“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.”
--Benjamin Franklin--
- Thread starter
- #12
Pickled Plaid
Songster
Yes, American orps are considered heritage All 3 “types” are considered dual purpose, they’re meant to be meat birds and egg layers.
My silver laced orps actually lay quite well, almost daily! Working with laced birds is difficult, MANY culls will have to be sorted through to try and pick the best out of them. I’m having a hard time growing out nice babies from my new sl cock. He’s got great type but his babies aren’t great as far as lacing goes. I’m going to replace him with my original boy who gives me babies with amazing lacing, I’ll be working on type more with them.
Some one I highly recommend for buffs is Daniel Velazquez, he’s got amazing birds that are closer to the British standard. Or Jerry Craig Couch for American orps
I don’t keep everything I hatch, so the babies I raise I toe punch.
When it came to my bbs I was breeding 2 separate pairs, so I would toe punch the chicks the male from pair 1 on their right toe, and the chicks from pair 2 on their left toe. I only raised about 10 chicks from each pair, I raised them together. Maybe I should use wing bands lol, it would probably be more helpful.
I will definitely leave breeding Laced birds to the experts! I think I'd have a tough time sorting through all the different criteria...it seems like the genetic equivalent of herding cats, lol.
Ahhhhhh, I see with the toe punching. The diagram in the video showed 16 toe punch variations, and my head was spinning trying to understand how it could be used. Your explanation is much simpler than what my brain was attempting! The toe punching and wing banding seem like solid ways to mark and track birds.
Thank you very much for the contacts for Buffs! It's really hard to know where to start looking.
It's a huge relief to know that it's possible to breed without a ginormous program. Once I get started, I'd much rather keep numbers small to focus on quality and the birds' overall health and happiness!
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!
Wing banding is just as easy as toe punching. But much more accurate. And you can get bands numbered up into the thousands. I started wing banding last year and I'm loving it. I can track each bird to the day it was hatched and in some cases its parents.
- Thread starter
- #14
Pickled Plaid
Songster
I watched a video on placing wing bands, and it seems like a great way to track specific individual birds.
My plan is to keep my numbers very small, but working with a solid single color, I don't want any possible confusion when the day comes to keep a chick, or find a new home.
Do you keep a handwritten log book of wing band numbers, or is there bloodline software available that you use? What works for you?
My plan is to keep my numbers very small, but working with a solid single color, I don't want any possible confusion when the day comes to keep a chick, or find a new home.
Do you keep a handwritten log book of wing band numbers, or is there bloodline software available that you use? What works for you?
I use a hand written log. Band Number, Hatch Date, Sire/Dam
- Thread starter
- #16
Pickled Plaid
Songster
Excellent! Thank you!
- Thread starter
- #17
Pickled Plaid
Songster
With Orpingtons being a slower to mature breed, is there an optimal time frame to keep in mind before breeding (hens and roosters both) where they should be done growing? Not sure I'd want to find out my top picks had an overnight growth spurt and have terrible faults in conformation - after breeding them and having chicks in the brooder who can't possibly be less of a disaster than their parents!
I'm still reading and working on my understanding of color genetics, and encountered some comments about Buff Orpingtons carrying the Dun gene, and how it distorts the golden Buff color. Is this a common genetic variable in Buffs in the US? My understanding is that if the bird carries a copy of Dun, it will be evident in their coloration, not hidden like recessive Lavender. Is that correct?
What other breeds are most commonly crossed with Orpingtons, and aside from only buying eggs from persons of impeccable reputation - is there a way to determine if a breeder's birds are outcrossed if they don't have dead give aways like feathered legs/feet?
Thank you in advance!
I'm still reading and working on my understanding of color genetics, and encountered some comments about Buff Orpingtons carrying the Dun gene, and how it distorts the golden Buff color. Is this a common genetic variable in Buffs in the US? My understanding is that if the bird carries a copy of Dun, it will be evident in their coloration, not hidden like recessive Lavender. Is that correct?
What other breeds are most commonly crossed with Orpingtons, and aside from only buying eggs from persons of impeccable reputation - is there a way to determine if a breeder's birds are outcrossed if they don't have dead give aways like feathered legs/feet?
Thank you in advance!
Mine go into the breeding pen at around 12-14 months minimum. Especially if I'm mixing ages. If you put in pullets to young the adult male can hurt them as he is larger. Even more importantly if you put a young cockerel in with mature hens they will pick on him to the point that he becomes afraid of them and won't breed, thus greatly effecting fertility.
When saving back for breeders I generally save back around 50% more than I want to use for breeding. And with your first few years breeding I would save back double what you want to use. You can always sell the excess in the spring. In the late fall "like now" if per say I wanted to have a breeding pen of 8 hens and one rooster. I would save back my best 2-3 males "always go into winter with at least one backup male regardless" and 10-12 females. Ideally you want them to molt at least once before they go into a breeding pen. The can show flawed feathers after their second molt that they didn't have before. And vise versa. They can molt out flawed feathers and not regrow them as well. Watch you comb points. The standard calls for 5, but 6 or more points are very common and should be culled for. Also the buff color itself can be tricky. The standard calls for a rich even golden buff color. Not so light that it looks yellow but not so dark it looks reddish.
As far as the Dunn gene, I've never heard of it personally. And haven't ran into it with my Buff Orps. I'm not help in that department, sorry.
I've not really seen a lot of crossbreds trying to be passed off as pure myself. English Orpingtons are a very old breed. And there are many breeders with old, established bloodlines. You'd want to look for incorrect combs, feathered legs, yellow legs, 5 toes, small bodies, high tails, beards, or incorrect feathers "such as evidence of lacing, penciling, or barring". These would be signs of crossbreeding or just poor genetics.
However smuttiness in the tail feathers and a white primary feather in the wing are common traits in most all bloodlines of English Buff Orps. They are traits that should be culled for naturally. But none the less its a common problem. This would indicate they need more work and not necessarily that they are of poor quality.
When saving back for breeders I generally save back around 50% more than I want to use for breeding. And with your first few years breeding I would save back double what you want to use. You can always sell the excess in the spring. In the late fall "like now" if per say I wanted to have a breeding pen of 8 hens and one rooster. I would save back my best 2-3 males "always go into winter with at least one backup male regardless" and 10-12 females. Ideally you want them to molt at least once before they go into a breeding pen. The can show flawed feathers after their second molt that they didn't have before. And vise versa. They can molt out flawed feathers and not regrow them as well. Watch you comb points. The standard calls for 5, but 6 or more points are very common and should be culled for. Also the buff color itself can be tricky. The standard calls for a rich even golden buff color. Not so light that it looks yellow but not so dark it looks reddish.
As far as the Dunn gene, I've never heard of it personally. And haven't ran into it with my Buff Orps. I'm not help in that department, sorry.
I've not really seen a lot of crossbreds trying to be passed off as pure myself. English Orpingtons are a very old breed. And there are many breeders with old, established bloodlines. You'd want to look for incorrect combs, feathered legs, yellow legs, 5 toes, small bodies, high tails, beards, or incorrect feathers "such as evidence of lacing, penciling, or barring". These would be signs of crossbreeding or just poor genetics.
However smuttiness in the tail feathers and a white primary feather in the wing are common traits in most all bloodlines of English Buff Orps. They are traits that should be culled for naturally. But none the less its a common problem. This would indicate they need more work and not necessarily that they are of poor quality.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #19
Pickled Plaid
Songster
Thank you so much!
About the smutty tail, or I've seen it called peppered tail also, while it is a fault in the show pen, is it a trait that actually maintains depth of gold color in breeding (which I've also read)? Does it depend on whether the smudges or pepper are tonally Buff or Black when deciding to cull? Or are both completely undesirable for any reason?
Regarding breeding age, once all breeder birds are fully mature, the arrangements in breeding pens can be adjusted with only expected social consequences? Also, are there any guidelines for age groups of bachelors? Are adult or nealy adult roosters tolerant of cockerels?
Do nutrition requirements change for roosters once they're in the breeding pen? I ask this primarily because I've noticed that soy bean and peas are common ingredients in chicken feed, that are high in protein, but also high in phytoestrogens. I'm curious whether fertility could potentially be impacted by diet choices?
About the smutty tail, or I've seen it called peppered tail also, while it is a fault in the show pen, is it a trait that actually maintains depth of gold color in breeding (which I've also read)? Does it depend on whether the smudges or pepper are tonally Buff or Black when deciding to cull? Or are both completely undesirable for any reason?
Regarding breeding age, once all breeder birds are fully mature, the arrangements in breeding pens can be adjusted with only expected social consequences? Also, are there any guidelines for age groups of bachelors? Are adult or nealy adult roosters tolerant of cockerels?
Do nutrition requirements change for roosters once they're in the breeding pen? I ask this primarily because I've noticed that soy bean and peas are common ingredients in chicken feed, that are high in protein, but also high in phytoestrogens. I'm curious whether fertility could potentially be impacted by diet choices?
- Thread starter
- #20
Pickled Plaid
Songster
Adding this link for a great thread on hatch numbers, pen sizes, and breeding advice
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...h-yearly-and-pen-sizes.1289406/#post-20907512
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...h-yearly-and-pen-sizes.1289406/#post-20907512
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