wyandotte genetics

[Mrs. Turbo]

I have actually done this cross...a BLRW roo on a SLW hen and what you get in reality can be different that what you would get in theory. Always remember when people talk about genitics in chickens...they are giving you the low down on what should happen when you cross this on that...but we dont always know what lurks underneath all those feathers.

I raised about 50-60 chicks from this cross and got some very nicely colored BLRW pullets with improved type and good mahogany red, I got some really bad colored SLW roos, some lemon colored pullets, and some very nice BLRW cockerels with great color. In theory I shouldnt have gotten any BLRW cockerels and if I did they should have brassy colored hackles..and I did get a few of those...I am on my second generation F2s from this cross and have been able to keep nice red hackles on the roos with very good type, but I only kept 5 chicks out of 60 hatched and depending on what colors may lay hidden in your SLW and BLRW you may get different results.

I did the cross to get improvement in type on my BLRW, however I keep this line seperate from my pure BLRW's. I also have a line of BLRW's that I crossed with a show quality rose comb RR and I am on my third generation F3s with that line...the color is sensational and I am getting there with the type...but the type on a RR is so different from a wyandotte that it has taken alot of chicks to get as far as I am...and I am still a generation away from being where I want to be with this breeding.

Jerry...using his wifes username again...while she is asleep.

 

[Krys109uk]

That's really interesting Jerry. Thanks.
I agree, sometimes results are not what they are supposed to be.

 

[camardagardens]

So where did the black comb come from? Will it change? I see the breed standard is rose coomb, one of the hens has one, the other 2 are smooth. Will this change? I was hoping to get some really good looking feather patterns on mostly breed standard golds. Here is our hen w a black smooth comb. You can see my handsome little roo in the background.

 

[tadkerson]

Mrs. Turbo :

I got some really bad colored SLW roos, some lemon colored pullets, and some very nice BLRW cockerels with great color. In theory I shouldnt have gotten any BLRW cockerels and if I did they should have brassy colored hackles..and I did get a few of those.

The only explanation I can think of for the gold males is a condition called trisomy. The males are actually S/s+/s+ and carries three Z chromosomes. Trisomy at the sex chromosomes occurs quit often. Sometimes animals are not effected by sex chromosome trisomy and sometimes they are effected by the condition. Most likely trisomy will show up as low fertility or infertility. Some animals can handle trisomy and others can not.


The lemon colored pullets are interesting. Some silver varieties carry the cream gene to help get rid of the "autosomal red" that shows in the plumage. It may be that your lemon colored birds are cream or some other gene that dilutes red. Those lemon females may be worth pursuing as a new variety.

I always say make lemonade from the lemons in life.

Tim​

 

[Mrs. Turbo]

Tim,

You get asked so much that you probably dont remember this cross I made and posted pics on the bluelacedred.com forum. You seemed fascinated by the lemons back then....we talked about making blue laced lemons...LOL. I did get rid on all the chicks that didnt show a good red color in the hackles....

Jerry

 

[Krys109uk]

I wondered whether the silver laced females might have been carrying dilute. Had the silvers been carrying cream (which I gather is uncommon in USA) it would not have shown as it is recessive.

 

[tadkerson]

Jerry,
I am always interested in the different colors etc.: could be a new mutation. I remember you on the other forum now that you mentioned it.

Krys,

You never know what birds are carrying around in their genome. I had dark brown show up in one of my crosses. I have no idea where the dark brown came from. I have a pullet that looks somewhat like a burnt orange breasted brassy back ( at least that is what remember). She is carrying columbian also. The eumelanin came from my broilers that much I know. The dark brown could have come from them also. I am going to put sex linked barring on the color and see what happens. Should be interesting. If anybody is interested I will post a pic.

Tim

 

[Krys109uk]

Tim,
I'd like to see pics please.

I'm afraid I'm rather hopeless with names. When you say dark brown, do you mean a colour or a gene? I'm not familiar with brassy back; please will you tell me the genotype they're supposed to have.
Thanks

 

[tadkerson]

Dark brown (Db) is a columbian like restrictor. It changes red pigment to a burnt orange color. The Db gene is linked to melanotic and Pg. The order of the linkage is Db-Ml-Pg. The Db gene is about 10 map units from the Ml.

Brassy back- No information on genetic make up- I know they are wild type and not columbian restricted. They have genes to make them black on the dorsal side. If they are columbian restricted you get the quail color.

http://www.bantychicken.com/OEGBCA/vbrassyback.html


Here is the female. She has changed quit a bit from the last time I took a good look at her. I had 30 birds in a grow out house and she is one of them. Here back and hackles were black- she has changed.

You can see the autosomal barring and burnt orange breast in her from the Db and Co. The color in the picture looks redish but she is not red.

Db-Pg gets you campine autosomal barring. She is looking more like a campine or fayoumi now. Co, Db-Pg produces fayoumi autosomal barring. Fayoumi are fayoumi birchen with Co, Db-Pg. Fayoumi birchen is different than birchen, do not quote me on this but I believe the amino acid sequence is different in the fayoumi birchen.

I do not know if she has Pg-she should not. I will have to wait and see how the autosomal barring progresses. She is only 9 weeks old now.

I am currently experimenting with the effects of Db on sex linked barring. I am going to cross her with one of my barred Rhodies and see what happens. Db-Ml-Pg will produce spangling so my experimental birds carry Db-Ml-Pg. If you throw in columbian with Db-Ml-Pg you get sebright lacing.

Tim

 

[Krys109uk]

Thanks for clarifying Tim.

Hypocrite that I am, I find a genotype in symbols far easier than names of colours but get confused by abbreviations for anything else, (except maths).

The brassy backs look e+,Ml & possibly other melanisers....no?

Your pullet looks interesting but I'm afraid I can't see anything close enough to see the autosomal barring.
I've never had an autosomal barred bird myself, just had the autosomal barred look which comes of Pg
What gene is she at the e-locus? I assume from your writing she's ER, though on appearance from the pics e+ or eb look possible, no?
I've also read that the fayoumi birchen & 'normal' birchen have a different amino sequence. I think Henk told me first of all (?), then I spotted documentation somewhere in my trawlings.
You put the Co in this pullet & Db also got in there? How could you tell she had Db as well as Co?