Zebra finches breeding odd question

[Angieby]

I have a mated pair of zebra finches. Have kept zebra for years and am confident these are one male and one female on appearance alone. Also the male sings the male song and the female only meeps. All is well and normal, nest is built, they preen and mate, but no eggs. They mate several times a day for the past few weeks but no eggs.

A week ago the male started guarding the nest and they both sit all day in the nest as if they have eggs. There are no eggs.

I gave them a dummy egg but they kicked it out.


Recently the male has begun asking the female to mount him. He goes through the whole female behaviour...the cooing, back low, spread tale feathers / shake tail feathers and she obliges him by mounting him.

She also does this to him, and he mates her.


In all my years I've never encountered this behavior. Any one know what's going on here ?


Thanks Angie

I have posted photos in the comments

 

[Angieby]

 

[Finnie]

You have more experience with Zebra finches than I do. I only bred them for a few months. (I bred other cage birds for 12 years but the Zebras were a brief foray.)

As I was reading your post, it occurred to me that when there are two females, you will get a huge clutch of infertile eggs. So I thought maybe you have two males since there are no eggs.

I wonder if your white one could be a male? I seem to remember that the white ones were harder to sex. Based on your description, it does seem like you have a pair, but maybe you have a subordinate male that has taken on the submissive role of a female. One way to find out is to pair the white one with a known female and see what happens.

Also, do you know for sure how old they are? Could the white one be too old to lay?

 

[Angieby]

You have more experience with Zebra finches than I do. I only bred them for a few months. (I bred other cage birds for 12 years but the Zebras were a brief foray.)

As I was reading your post, it occurred to me that when there are two females, you will get a huge clutch of infertile eggs. So I thought maybe you have two males since there are no eggs.

I wonder if your white one could be a male? I seem to remember that the white ones were harder to sex. Based on your description, it does seem like you have a pair, but maybe you have a subordinate male that has taken on the submissive role of a female. One way to find out is to pair the white one with a known female and see what happens.

Also, do you know for sure how old they are? Could the white one be too old to lay?

I have heard white ones are hard to, sex too, however this girl is technically cream white ones don't have any other face markings or markings at all!

I wondered too if she were a male, but she does not make the male song. Only the little meepeeps that females make where the male makes the big song! If she were a HE he would make the big song, too.

I think they are not very old as I got them at Petco and they sell pretty fast ?

I think these poor birds are very confused, too. The male made a nest for her, and now they are sitting on an imaginary clutch. They sometimes take the litter pellets up there and mistake them for eggs, too.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Finnie]

Yeah, Petco would get in babies. So here’s another theory. Maybe they are just too young still for breeding, so they are “doing it wrong”. Maybe on their next try, she will lay eggs.

When I was breeding Gouldian finches, they had a very steep learning curve. Very often, first clutches were infertile. Then there would be a fertile clutch that was all DIS. (Embryos die, probably from improper incubation.) The next clutch would hatch but the parents would toss all or some of the chicks. THEN they would finally get their act together and raise healthy babies.

I don’t remember the zebras going through all that, but any species can experience a rocky start. Maybe they just need some age and experience.

 

[ColtHandorf]

View attachment 3336024View attachment 3336026

They are both male. lol Look at their beaks! Males are dark orange like that. Hens have lighter bills.

I have never personally had a hen with a bill that dark.

Male:

Female:

Males in the main photo; female in insert.

 

[ColtHandorf]

If she were a HE he would make the big song, too.

Like roosters, in the presence of a dominant male, another male may not crow (or sing).

 

[ColtHandorf]

You can go over to the Finch Forum for more detailed tips on sexing and breeding them.

Cindy Fox Moore is very good with them. So is Charlie Moorecraft. Both breeders are on Facebook as well, as is Garrie Landy.

http://www.zebrafinch.com/

 

[Angieby]

Will do ! I'll update !

 

[ColtHandorf]

I'm pretty confident I'm right. The last thing I mispaired was two Gouldian hens. lol Couldn't figure out why there were 15 eggs in the nest box and all clear. lol For being "easy" honestly, I find Zebras more infuriating than most breeds.