3 day old cornish cross chicks dying suddenly???

[Tlafferty502]

We raise Cornish Cross every year for 4 years, in batches of at least 100 twice a year. We picked up our chicks from the hatchery on 5/17/23, today is 5/20/23 and we have lost close to 15 so far. No idea what's going on and we have never lost this many so early. In fact we normally don't even reach 10% loss over the full course of the batch. We have two large enclosed brooders on our barn and we split the birds into two batches (60 in each brooder) with plenty of room for them to move around or get away from the lamps if they are too warm. Brooder has heat lamps, non-gmo feed, and fresh water. We check on them multiple times per day. The chicks started off all looking healthy and content. We check each chick as it comes out of the box when we take them out and count them into the brooder. All was well on day 1, they arrived, and went into the brooder. Day 2 two or three were found dead, Day 3 two or three more, Day 4 eight were found dead. We have noticed that the ones that don't make it will look lethargic beforehand. Not moving, walking or bothered when we try to move them. None have made it that appear this way. They also appear smaller than the rest (Though, previous to being found lethargic, we have not noticed any looking significantly smaller than the rest).
The ONLY thing that we have done different this year from the last is: normally when they are super tiny we block off part of the brooder since it is so large and as they get bigger we remove the barriers to give them more room. We normally just use a few bags of McFeeder's chips to block off an area. This year we used large plastic swimming pools to contain them. However the pools are large (almost as large as the brooder but slightly smaller) and had plenty of room for the chicks to get away from the heat if they are too warm, so I can't imagine the pool had anything to do with it. We check the heat and adjust the lamps as needed throughout the day.
No other symptoms... no significant bullying, no lesions, no pasty butt, nothing.
Also, both brooders are affected.
Any thoughts?????

 

[Molpet]

I wonder if the pools are gassing off toxic fumes. Like Teflon pans and shattered proof bulbs.
Also someone had troubles with waterers that were old and discolored like from hardwater.

 

[Tlafferty502]

I wonder if the pools are gassing off toxic fumes. Like Teflon pans and shattered proof bulbs.
Also someone had troubles with waterers that were old and discolored like from hardwater.

I had wondered this as well, but considering so many use plastic pools, Rubbermaid containers, etc as makeshift brooders that I didn't think that would be an issue. Possible though! We removed the pools today so we will see if it continues.
Our waterers are old but we do clean them. I'll take a better look at those as well and swap for new ones if needed!

 

[cmobley]

Any chance it could be coccidia left in any shavings or anything from other batches? Anytime mine act lethargic and kinda sulled up not moving around my mind always goes to cocci.

 

[Tlafferty502]

Any chance it could be coccidia left in any shavings or anything from other batches? Anytime mine act lethargic and kinda sulled up not moving around my mind always goes to cocci.

I wouldn't think so, we clean the brooder out immediately every batch. I did have 16 egg laying chicks in there earlier in the year until they were big enough to move to the big coop. It was cleaned out afterwards none of those chicks had any issues, all grew healthy and are doing fine out with the other hens.
I am stumped! Though, I think of cocci too with the lethargic presentation!
Oh, and the meat birds were in the pool with fresh bedding so never actually touching the floor of the brooder???

 

[Kiki]

What is the temperature under your heat lamp?

Birds don't necessarily have to touch the group in order to get coccidiosis.
if you have other birds, besides the chicks, it is highly likely you have different strains of coccidia on your land.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Day 2 two or three were found dead, Day 3 two or three more, Day 4 eight were found dead.
Also, both brooders are affected.

The problems with Coccidiosis come when the number of the protozoa that causes it overload their system. That's not enough time for the numbers to build up. And it is in both brooders. I don't see how it could be Coccidiosis.

They are lethargic but you did not mention a plaintive peeping as if they were in pain or hungry or thirsty. It takes some time for them to die. To me it sounds like some type of poisoning more than anything else. The pools are different from previous years so getting rid of them is a good move. The plastic is airtight. Even if the gas isn't coming from them, they could possibly collect a heavier than air gas coming from something else that would have dissipated in previous years. To me this does not sound likely, more would probably be dead.

What else is different? Is the water somehow contaminated. I don't know your water source. I doubt you are using a cleaner every day that could be the problem. Is the food moldy or stored in a container that is contaminated? Are you giving them any supplements or "treats". Not sure what you are using for bedding but it is different bags or bales from last year. You picked them up from the hatchery, you can't blame shipping unless you somehow stressed them.

None of these feels right as to the cause of what you are seeing. I'm just grabbing at straws. If you live in the USA you might contact your county extension office tomorrow and see what it takes to get a necropsy; cost, where to take one that died, and how to preserve it. That's where they cut one open to try to determine what killed it.

 

[Morrigan]

Did you change the light bulbs on either your heat lamps or in the general vicinity of the brooding area this year? Like @Molpet mentioned some shatterproof-style light bulbs give off fumes that are deadly toxic to chickens. Along those same lines, perhaps the kiddie pools were coated with some new technology that has a similar effect.

If the lightbulbs aren't the problem, the next thing I would try is a fresh bag of chick food. It's unlikely, but possible, that the food was somehow moldy or compromised.

I would also contact the hatchery and let them know. If others are reporting similar problems, it might be something to do with a weak genetic line or other problem on their end.

 

[imacowgirl2]

Probably too late to help now…but my cousin has an order of 60 (not Cornish Cross though) from a hatchery do the same thing. He ordered three for me and I went to pick them up on evening of day 4 (they had arrived at his house on morning of day 3) and by the time I got there he had lost 30 and a few more were very lethargic when I was there picking mine up. Mine were very active, got them home and in the brooder and within two hours, one was lethargic, seemed on verge of death. Since I knew where this was likely headed and we had nothing to lose, I had my daughter mix up some strong sugar water and we used a syringe to place some on his beak…once he got the first drop in, he opened his eyes, and after a few more drops was energized enough to start crazily pecking at the syringe. After giving him a few more drops, he was acting almost normal again so we set him in the brooder again and he started eating and drinking like crazy, and he made it. My theory is that for some reason this batch of chicks got overly stressed or whatever during shipping and just needed some fast energy to get them going…it was crazy, but worked, so sugar water is now on my list of last ditch effort things to save a lethargic chick lol

 

[Tlafferty502]

We raise Cornish Cross every year for 4 years, in batches of at least 100 twice a year. We picked up our chicks from the hatchery on 5/17/23, today is 5/20/23 and we have lost close to 15 so far. No idea what's going on and we have never lost this many so early. In fact we normally don't even reach 10% loss over the full course of the batch. We have two large enclosed brooders on our barn and we split the birds into two batches (60 in each brooder) with plenty of room for them to move around or get away from the lamps if they are too warm. Brooder has heat lamps, non-gmo feed, and fresh water. We check on them multiple times per day. The chicks started off all looking healthy and content. We check each chick as it comes out of the box when we take them out and count them into the brooder. All was well on day 1, they arrived, and went into the brooder. Day 2 two or three were found dead, Day 3 two or three more, Day 4 eight were found dead. We have noticed that the ones that don't make it will look lethargic beforehand. Not moving, walking or bothered when we try to move them. None have made it that appear this way. They also appear smaller than the rest (Though, previous to being found lethargic, we have not noticed any looking significantly smaller than the rest).
The ONLY thing that we have done different this year from the last is: normally when they are super tiny we block off part of the brooder since it is so large and as they get bigger we remove the barriers to give them more room. We normally just use a few bags of McFeeder's chips to block off an area. This year we used large plastic swimming pools to contain them. However the pools are large (almost as large as the brooder but slightly smaller) and had plenty of room for the chicks to get away from the heat if they are too warm, so I can't imagine the pool had anything to do with it. We check the heat and adjust the lamps as needed throughout the day.
No other symptoms... no significant bullying, no lesions, no pasty butt, nothing.
Also, both brooders are affected.
Any thoughts?????

Update:
a little late but in case anyone else comes across this thread...
We contacted our hatchery and were told that we were not the only ones with this issue. several others had the same issue. They think that something was wrong with one of their incubators that led to the issue. They replaced all of the chicks. We had no further issues with the rest of our chicks or the new replacement chicks.