3 month old turkey with blackhead

[Ksane]

Quote:
Do you use hors wormer??? or do you get this differently and how to you feed it to your birds? Sounds good to me as well.

Yes, I use the Safeguard horse paste. Kills ALL worms except tapes. Valbazen does kill all (including tapes) but I can't find it around here either. I need to get some ordered online. Safeguard is so easy to find, even our WalMart carries it. I give bantam sized chickens an oversized pea-sized drop. LF Cochin sized birds get about a 3/4" ribbon of the paste. It's really safe and difficult to overdose. Then re-dose them 10 days later.
Where do I get lime at??? I'd be interested in that. I had some 3 mo olds come down with e. coli and while I understand how e.coli is in all bird's bodies, I'd still feel better if I could just lime that entire run before putting anyone else there.
Edit, I do have 3 young turkeys (in another pen) so I sympathize with you about blackhead. It's always been a concern of mine and also one of the top reasons I make 200% sure all my other birds and my new birds stay wormed with Safeguard. I'm doing it 3 times a year. People can say what they want about wormers being 'dangerous chemicals' (they're not) but blackhead along with worms are a heck of a lot more dangerous.

 

[crj]

Ksane, you can find lime at Home Depot or Lowes. I know there are 2 different kinds of lime. One where it can be used with animals around and I believe that is a white powder. There is another lime which I think is time released. I don't think that is the one you want. Feed stores will have it and probably hardware stores.

You say you use a pea size for bantams and 3/4" ribbon for chickens...... is that each bird? or is that mixed with water or feed for a certain amount of birds? I've heard someone using Zimectrin Gold for there birds as well. I don't know the dosage though. Yes, horse dewormer is really easy to get.

I am having trouble getting Fish Zole. People have mentioned you can get it in stores but I've had no luck at all. Under the other names it's all prescrition medication. Hopefully our feed store will get the Valbazen. I just looked it up and man is it expensive!

 

[Ksane]

Quote:
You'll cover ALL bases if you use Safeguard and Zimectrin Gold and won't need the Valbazen. Safeguard will kill *all worms except tapes and the praziquantel in Zimectrin Gold will kill tapes. The Ivomec in Zimectrin Gold will protect against mites. So that's all you'd need to kill all the worms found in poultry. I've not yet used Zimectrin Gold (but will). But I've heard people claim the dose is the same. I was going to use the same dose as the Safebguard.
But yes-a pea sized glop for each bantam and a 3/4" ribbon for each large fowl chicken. My turkeys are now about 10 lbs, I'd use an inch long ribbon and that'd be more than enough. I do give a bit extra because it's safe. In dogs 1 cc of Safeguard treats a 25 lb dog. It does involve physically dosing each chicken. I've heard of some people putting it in the water for a day. But I'd just as soon give it individually to each chicken and *know they've been dose with the right amount. FishZole is just metronidazole/Flagyl.You can get it at:
http://www.lambertvetsupply.com/Fish-Zole-Metronidazole-250-mg-x-60-Count--pr--001TLFZ60
for $13, I think shipping is another $6. But still, it'd last awhile. That's where I get pretty much all antibiotics. Their shipping is fast. If you need it before a few days you can try a vet.

 

[Ksane]

You know.....you might try the fish antibiotics at PetsMart. Let me go look real quick. They might have metronidazole.
Edit:Nope, they've got tetracycline and Erythromycin but not metronidazole by itself.

 

[ivan3]

They still have it at Amazon: (just search for Metronidazole tablets 250mg)


However, I'm betting that within the next few years one will have to get it from the vet or, if one has an understanding doc of one's own, get the Flagyl.

Still have a two bottles of Dimetridazole, in the freezer, (from Foy's Pigeon Supplies) bought after it was placed on the prohibited list* (crazy - if one is exhibiting or yard-arting, and not eating, the extremely remote potential of carcinogenic risk is irrelevant).

*first prohibited for use in commercial flocks. Slowly, but surely, retail availabilty for use in other species/`kind', i.e., pets and show birds, evaporated.

 

[crj]

Ksane, thank you for the dosage. That will come in very handy. Thank you for sharing your wealth of information. Petsmart had something called "General Cure" in the fish section. It had 250 mg metronidazole but it also had another ingredient which I didn't know what it was. I've tried looking up the brand and could not find the ingredients. I have a feeling it was a dewormer medication but I can't be positive. If I go that way again I will write it down. This big words stump me every time. It's one of those things where I have to hear it pronounced in order to say it right..... lol.

Ivan3, you are right about the medications having to have prescriptions. Everywhere here you have to have one. I did see Dimetridazole in my search on medications and found on the site you mentioned. What is that for? It also goes under another name which starts with and "E" something like Emtryl. Can't remember.

As of right now my young turkey is MIA. I have not been able to find her. She did not show up yesterday and I have not seen her today. When I was putting up the birds I saved her for last and my phone range. It was the woman that gave me the poult. I did my best to keep my eye on the poult because she was at the edge of the woods. Thinking it was finally dark I was going to pick her up and put her in. But, when I got off the phone she was gone. Unusual for her. She always stays in a particular area and now I don't know if a preditor got her of if she just went off on her own. I have looked everywhere and can not find her.

I just gave all my birds scambled eggs with a bunch of cayenne pepper. I will have to get Safe Guard since I have to get Dewormer for my horses.

You guys have broken down the information wonderfully. Very easy to understand. Some people don't take the time or make you feel stupid. Thanks for not doing that.

 

[Ksane]

Quote:
I've got lots of fish and use General Cure all the time for new fish in quarantine (yup, people quarantine fish, too lol). It's got metrinidazole (flagyl) and praziquantel in it. The praziquantel is what kills tapes and is used in poultry. The problem is I don't know how to break down the dosage from the fish meds into bird doses. You can also buy a product for fish called Fish Tapes and that ingredient is also praziquantel. I worked for a vet for many years and it always amazed me how the exact same medicines could be bought about anywhere for cheap without a prescription if they were labeled for fish or birds. Yet, just try to buy Flagyl for humans-there's no way you can. It's all in how it'd labeled. Government red tape at it's finest.
I don't know much and I'm far from an expert. I just lost my 3rd young bird this morning to an e. coli outbreak that's slowly killing them off. Between me & the vet both we're only running about 50/50 in saving them. Not good odds.
Here's hoping for the best for you. If she doesn't show back up the problem may not be in your hands anyway.

 

[ivan3]

crj wrote: Ivan3, you are right about the medications having to have prescriptions. Everywhere here you have to have one. I did see Dimetridazole in my search on medications and found on the site you mentioned. What is that for? It also goes under another name which starts with and "E" something like Emtryl. Can't remember.

Sorry, I tend to use chemical names. Yes, Emtryl (I've got the tabs, not the powder). I'd be very suspicious of any Emtryl pigeon powder (probably someone buying Metronidazole cheap and repackaging). Dimetridazole was THE drug of choice for treating `enterohepatitis' (blackhead) in turkeys. It was banned for use in commercial flocks (`potential' carcinogen - in very large doses). It is no longer listed in the FDA's USVet formulary. Metronidazole and Dimetridazole are `kissing cousins'. When tested against HM in vitro (test tube) the Metronidazole rubbed out the offending protozoan, but took a little longer than the Dimetridazole. http://ps.fass.org/cgi/reprint/81/8/1122

Hope she wanders home!

Ksane wrote: The problem is I don't know how to break down the dosage from the fish meds into bird doses.

Do you know how many mg/g of powder? http://faculty.mdc.edu/mserant/pharmmath.htm Cheap digital scale comes in handy.

Metronidazole is one of the most commonly used drugs for anaerobic infections. It is effective for giardiasis; other drugs used for Giardia infection include albendazole, fenbendazole, and quinacrine. Maximum dose that should be administered is 50-65 mg/kg,q24h, in any species.

Flagyl dosing in humans - same ballpark.​

 

[crj]

Quote:
Sorry, I tend to use chemical names. Yes, Emtryl (I've got the tabs, not the powder). I'd be very suspicious of any Emtryl pigeon powder (probably someone buying Metronidazole cheap and repackaging). Dimetridazole was THE drug of choice for treating `enterohepatitis' (blackhead) in turkeys. It was banned for use in commercial flocks (`potential' carcinogen - in very large doses). It is no longer listed in the FDA's USVet formulary. Metronidazole and Dimetridazole are `kissing cousins'. When tested against HM in vitro (test tube) the Metronidazole rubbed out the offending protozoan, but took a little longer than the Dimetridazole. http://ps.fass.org/cgi/reprint/81/8/1122

Hope she wanders home!

Ksane wrote: The problem is I don't know how to break down the dosage from the fish meds into bird doses.

Do you know how many mg/g of powder? http://faculty.mdc.edu/mserant/pharmmath.htm Cheap digital scale comes in handy.

Metronidazole is one of the most commonly used drugs for anaerobic infections. It is effective for giardiasis; other drugs used for Giardia infection include albendazole, fenbendazole, and quinacrine. Maximum dose that should be administered is 50-65 mg/kg,q24h, in any species.

Flagyl dosing in humans - same ballpark.​

This is all excellent information. I'm writing it all down so I don't get so confused. I've been reading a lot about these medications and it all becomes a blur after too long. You have explained everything so well. I like the other questions too because I won't have to ask them myself....... lol.

The "General Cure" from PetSmart has 250 mg of Metronidazole and 75mg of Praziquantel. I would imagine that would be ok to give turkeys. The Praziquantel would be a wormer. Probably not very strong but something that would be a good start before doing a strong worming after the medication. It's $14.99 here and I think there are 10 tablets. PetSmart carried something else cheaper $4.99) but it had 3 more ingredients in it that I didn't feel would be good for poultry. Something to do with Parasites in or on fish. So, maybe "General Cure" would be a good choice?

I believe it's out of my hands right now. She still hasn't come back. Not like her. She normally stays in 1 area and I can't find her in any area and none of the birds have given me any signs that something is amiss. This just breaks my heart because the weather had been rainy and cold the first night and just cold the rest. Not to mention that I found a week old baby chick drowned in a buck of water the same day the turkey went missing. I'll keep hoping she shows up but it's not looking that way at this point. Still, I want all the information for sick turkeys I can collect so I know what to do if my others have a problem.​

 

[ivan3]

crj wrote: The "General Cure" from PetSmart has 250 mg of Metronidazole and 75mg of Praziquantel. I would imagine that would be ok to give turkeys. The Praziquantel would be a wormer. Probably not very strong but something that would be a good start before doing a strong worming after the medication. It's $14.99 here and I think there are 10 tablets. PetSmart carried something else cheaper $4.99) but it had 3 more ingredients in it that I didn't feel would be good for poultry. Something to do with Parasites in or on fish. So, maybe "General Cure" would be a good choice?

Sorry to hear she's hasn't returned, bummer.

That med would do. The Fishzole 60 tabs/250mg, at Amazon, is probably $20.00 with S&H.

Another good reference to have on hand is Avian Medicine Principles and Applications (author focuses on companion birds - psittacines primarily - but there is a chapter on gallinaceous birds, good formulary and dosing rec. - the chapter on trauma/emergencies is useful for most species of avian): just R click on the pic of book and Save Target As (fully searchable PDF - not an image file): (no longer available outside of torrents/sale).

Saif's book: Diseases of Poultry is $$ but it the chapter on protozoal diseases is partially available (as is quite of bit of the whole tome) on Google Books (includes page with photos of HM lesioned turks).

Best of luck to you, and hope the wanderer returns.​

ed: link updates/removal