3yo RIR, egg problems? liver dz?

aliris

Songster
Sep 20, 2021
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West LA
Hi everyone - I'm trying to learn and read. It's hard to know what to dig into though on this gargantuan site!

I'm concerned about a nearly-3yo Rhode Island Red. She's laid few eggs for several months now, since 2 of 4 of her flock died (perhaps earlier though). The ones she lays have very thin shells. She's had a poopy butt most of this time, not sure if it's coincident in time, could be. Sometimes she'll sit a looong while in a nest but doesn't usually produce an egg. She'll roll other hen's eggs underneath her though! She doesn't appear distressed but a little less feathers, less fluffed out than formerly. Her crest is large, bright red, sturdy.

She's been scarfly in her breathing all this while, sometimes seems to "cough", not even to sneeze. I don't hear the labored breathing unless I pick her up.

Worrying that she was constipated or eggbound, I did once check in her vent (several weeks ago) and felt nothing there.

No obvious bugs, parasites, worms. Poops look normal, except that lots of it sticks to her feathers.

Worried about the poopy butt and constipation, I fed her some coconut oil a few weeks back that seems maybe to have helped a bit. Then two days ago I fed her more (approx 1 tsp, maybe more); then the following day this happened:

Yesterday, late afternoon very publicly she squatted down and produced an egg with just the barest of egg coverings, basically none.

After the non-egg laying, there was a feeding frenzy in which much egg wound up on everyone's feathers so I washed this one. I realized the poop was really stuck on and it took several washings and rubbing to get her clean. I took a couple photos. And tried to inspect her vent but I'm not sure what I'm looking for.

It does seem as if she is swollen beneath the legs, which is what I read somewhere could be fatty liver problems blocking the exit of poop? I'm attaching two pictures but they may not show enough. Please let me know if there's something better I should capture. As it's not clear there's too much to do about this problem, not sure what this will do.

Is she just "old" and at the end of her egg-laying tenure? Is she sick in a way I can help her with (respiratory?) Is she over-fed in a way I can't now help her with? Is she still depressed about her former buds? (she has two new laying hens well-integrated into the flock now).

tia!
 

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I don't know why the other two died. Folks here urged me to send for an autopsy but we weren't prepared for this; I would be better-so now. The saga of their deaths is fairly well-documented elsewhere! I'm actually blanking on a lot of it now, it was quite traumatic and could have been respiratory. I actually had a bad eye infection days before the first got sick. I could have been ground zero for them. I don't know but it's possible all four got infected and two survived. I don't know.

I feed them in a treadle feeder scratch/peck layer w/o corn; then I take the fines from that (+/- 1 c) they don't eat and lightly ferment it with water and a couple tablespoons of scratch, same company. They love this mash and I figure it gets the nutrition they're scorning back into them. They have calcium and grit freely available and I feed their egg shells back to them, also just there for the taking. The four get an occasional corn cob. And they free range in our garden quite a bit, a lot more after the death of the two. They're out most of the day. Soemtimes they get oats; dh feeds them his breakfast which has a ghastly amount of sweetener on it. I'm not sure they're getting much this way but tbh I am not sure how to stop this behaviour. The same source has been feeding some scratch too, more than should be going that way no doubt. I've tried to dissuade this but could take stronger steps in this regard if it mattered. They also have free access to compost which I know is a no-no, but it's worked for several years... they mostly just observe and stay away. It's spread over a fairly large area with a lot of vegetation mixed in and seems ok-ish...?
 
@Wyorp Rock , @Eggcessive -- any thoughts please? Do the photos of the backside provide any information? It's like a bag there, saggy. Should I check for an egg? tia... Also thanks for pinging someone who might be, um, a "poopy-butt maven". The poopy butt is less bad than formerly but starting to return....
 
She doesn't appear distressed but a little less feathers, less fluffed out than formerly. Her crest is large, bright red, sturdy.
I'd work on getting some extra calcium into her, she's producing, but has thin shells.

You can find Calcium Citrate with D3 in the vitamin aisle of stores like Walmart, CVS, etc. Give 1 tablet daily, just pull down on her wattles, pop the tablet into the beak and let her swallow. Do this for 5 days.

She is a bit saggy when can often been seen in laying hens. It could be an indicator that she's starting to have some reproductive problems, but if she's eating/drinking/active and still able to lay, then I'd monitor her for a while.
 
I'd work on getting some extra calcium into her, she's producing, but has thin shells.

You can find Calcium Citrate with D3 in the vitamin aisle of stores like Walmart, CVS, etc. Give 1 tablet daily, just pull down on her wattles, pop the tablet into the beak and let her swallow. Do this for 5 days.

She is a bit saggy when can often been seen in laying hens. It could be an indicator that she's starting to have some reproductive problems, but if she's eating/drinking/active and still able to lay, then I'd monitor her for a while.
OK great, I can try that; that's easy. But... no, really: you pull down on the poor thing's wattles?! lol... that sounds unpleasant for her. I can just open her beak, no? Isn't that less intrusive than pulling on her wattles? yikes.

She's absolutely active. Noisy-complainy but that's been a constant her whole life. Which of course also makes me wonder if she's had reproductive and/or pain issues her whole life; it's possible.

Anyway, I will try force-feeding her some calcium. Should I keep on trying to get some grease into her for the poopy-butt thing or just let that be? She loved just eating the coconut oil when I first offered it to her of her own free will. But then when I forced it into her, now she's very reluctant to eat it (while her flockmates fall all over themselves to get at what ought to be a special treat for her!) Is it any wonder that when we turn away from eating what we are compelled to eat ?

Anyway, calcium - check. Should I also try to continue getting coconut oil into her or skip that?

Thanks for the advice!
 
The mass beneath her vent could be all manner of things. Excess fat, hernia, internal laying. A lot of hens get it and cope fine. I have one who has it and she does seem to have trouble with a messy behind more often than the others. I trim her feathers to manage it.

Try to give your flock a feed with more protein, keep up with the shell grit/oyster shell/egg shells, stop the treats and pull your husband into line. I think a teaspoon of meal worms/bsfl per bird is max for the day.
 
The mass beneath her vent could be all manner of things. Excess fat, hernia, internal laying. A lot of hens get it and cope fine. I have one who has it and she does seem to have trouble with a messy behind more often than the others. I trim her feathers to manage it.

Try to give your flock a feed with more protein, keep up with the shell grit/oyster shell/egg shells, stop the treats and pull your husband into line. I think a teaspoon of meal worms/bsfl per bird is max for the day.
Thanks, Lilith. I'll try to control the dh. I was intrigued by this article in BYC , https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...eat-tears-a-calculator-or-deep-pockets.78655/, suggesting some of the assertions regarding nutrition are a bit prejudice- rather than fact-based. I don't know if it's a bad thing, but I've probably given ours closer to a couple T of worms/day. Actually, I think the protein content of mealworms and BSFL may be an order of magnitude different, and I don't even remember which way. So I should maybe think about that. But the amount of work they do to put out all those eggs is just daunting to me and when I think of it I want to throw out cupsful of the stuff. Geeesh. But given that some commercial feed is a full 12.5% greater in protein (18% up from 16% (meaning 18/16 which is a funny way of calculating that I know)), it does seem to me there has to be some leeway in these rules-of-thumb ...

Anyway, I don't mean to sound like I know better about any of this: I don't. I do suspect that they're getting enough protein though. I'm hopeful that just trying to stuff some calcium in the girl might help. I wouldn't know why she may have been under the line in this, but maybe she is in a way that we can boost up.

I'll empty out the container that has the scratch in it so the dh can't get at it so easily. That should do it ;) There seems absolutely no way, however, that I could be successful at diminishing the amount of sweetener that winds up on that oatmeal, however.

I am so happy to hear there's some chance I haven't overfed my poor chicken into poor health. I mean, I probably have for sure to some extent, but perhaps I haven't flat-out killed her. It's good to hear some chickens manage the sag well-enough.
 

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