Back to Eden Gardening and Hugelkulture and other non-conventional garden methods

[lazy gardener]

I’ve got a question for this topic, especially since it ties in to chickens.

We have a large BTE Garden in year two also. However, the way we run it is like this; we have a 50X112 Garden covered in 8” of mulch. It’s divided in half to 25X112. On one half we grow food. On the other half we run layer chickens. We switch the chicken/garden areas out once a year in spring with fresh mulch application.

I want to add manure worms (either Red wigglers or super reds) to the BTE garden beds. I know that they love leaf chips and mulch as well as compostable items and composted manure. I also know that chickens love to eat them. We’re also in zone 7B with long hot humid spring, summer, fall.

My question is three fold:

Will the Red worms reproduce fast enough to keep up with the eating rate of 16 chickens, and if so, will they migrate away from the chickens towards the garden area every year, or will they migrate towards the chicken manure and compost / treats?

Also, will the super reds (deeper tunneling, cooler climate) or the red wigglers (shallower tunneling, hot climate) be best for our use?

Is anyone out there experienced in this avenue, and will it work or will we have to buy new worms every year after winter?

I like your thought process, and am envious that you have enough room to do the garden split. As for adding the worms:

My birds are in a 500 s.f. run that has been DL managed. The DL is loaded with red worms. I do not believe they are the typical worms sold for vermiposting. B/C, when I've harvested them in the past for my worm bin, they immediately migrated out of the bin. Made a mess on the garage floor. I'm just thankful I did not have them "upstairs". IMO, a healthy system will have a never ending supply of worms. They will migrate up and down to find their comfort level re: temp and moisture.

I have harvested worms from my yard which have populated my vermipost bin and stayed put. They were harvested from layers of damp cardboard that were placed in the garden one year.

Have you dug down through the BTE mulch in your garden to do a worm count? You might be very pleasantly surprised. I suggest that you concentrate on making the area hospitable for the native worms. No doubt you already have red worms there or in your compost pile (if you have one.) You might also lay a bale of hay in direct contact with the soil. A good bunny trail to follow regarding hay: "Hay bale gardening", and any of the quirky writings by Ruth Stout. She was the inspiration to get me started on gardening under mulch 40 years ago.

Save your money. Instead of spending it on worms which may or may not thrive in your set up, work with your native species. Keep an area of the garden nice and moist, lay down some cardboard, or a bale of hay, mix some compostables into the BTE mulch in an unused portion of the garden. Grass clippings are a winner for addition to BTE mulch. If you feed them, they will come.

It sounds to me like you are doing everything right.

How is the growth in your garden this year, compared to your first year with BTE?

 

[lazy gardener]

If you do buy worms, don't bother putting them on the chicken side. They will turn into an expensive treat. One other consideration that would work well for you: Inoculate your garden with some Wine Cap Mushroom spawn. WC and BTE go together like a hand and glove.

 

[ageranger361]

Well, I have dug down into the mulch, all the way to the soil on the garden side because last year or Garden drowned under all the water. We get 60” of rain per year here in my area, and with hard compacted clay like we have when you dig a nice big hole in the ground for each of your plants like I did it turns into a “bucket” to hold the water, and then mulching over top of it holds the water. Then on top of that we managed the tomatoes very closely and pruned them up really nicely. The problem with that is the less foliage the less plant there is to transpire, which would’ve helped dissipate some of that moisture. So our plants basically all drowned the first year.

After researching it (I AM ORGANIC GROWING on YouTube) we decided to expand the garden to the size it is now, remove the mulch in the areas we wanted garden beds 5 rows 30” wide columns 18” long, so essentially 15 30”X18’ beds. We moved the mulch over to one side one bed area at a time and filled that area 4” deep on top of the soil surface with pro-mix, then put the mulch back and started the next row. We also started with our garden on a slope, which works in our favor to shed some water. What we ended up with is 4” deep 30” wide X 18’ Long raised beds above the soil, held in place on the sides and top with mulch. The garden surface looks flat because we mulched it all flat, but there are actually raised beds under the mulch.

When I dug the mulch and added the pro-mix there were literally thousands of night crawlers in there, but that was in winter, so they weren’t too hot that close to the surface, but NOW if you dig down there are none because it’s summer, which is why I was wanting to add a super red worm which still tunnels but is also capable of tolerating a temperature around 80-85° so it could come to the surface in spring & fall and not cook. In summer the soil is probably going to be too hot even for them, but at least I’ll have three seasons of free worm labor then.

A second reason I wanted to add super reds was because they also eat composted manure, which our chickens are making a lot of, lol. I was hoping to use them to munch on that and create an ecosystem where we feed the plants to the chickens, the chickens feed the worms, the worms feed the plants,,, you get my drift?

Yet another reason I wanted them is because we plant to compost IN the chicken run, to let the chickens have access to the newest compost piles, then exclude them from the older piles to allow them to rest and finish. This would cut our chicken feed more. It would also give us finished compost in the chicken run just prior to it being turned into garden area the following spring, which we could then open up and spread flat prior to re-mulching for the garden at changeover time.

We do collect grass cuttings and add them to the chicken run. We throw bruised, over ripened, and old fruit and vegetables to the chickens in there already as well, just not in a compost “pile.” It’s more like a sheet system presently. I have several round bales of hay that I could add to the top of the mulch in the chicken run to compost down if we needed to.

Our woodchip area is essentially composting as well. The chips are aging in piles now. No worms in them yet though, but definitely ants and bugs.

Our first year the garden was crap, but we knew it was going to be. This year has so far been challenging due to weeding issues and some mistakes I made in planting out too soon, but we knew this year would be poor as well. We are getting loads of delicious butternut squash, cucumbers and melons though. I’m expecting our late summer / fall garden to be really good. Our summer squash all got wiped out by SV Borers. Tomatoes are in and growing and looking to produce a decent mid to late summer crop.

We’re planning our fall garden out now and basically have it planned. Just need to finish weeding and mulching the rest of the garden and then it’s planting time...

 

[lazy gardener]

Your logic is sound. I say go for it. What do you have to loose? This last statement/question is becoming my summer mantra. That along with, "What could possibly go wrong?" I'm driving my hubby crazy with that!

 

[ageranger361]

Your logic is sound. I say go for it. What do you have to loose?

About $80, LOL!!! :-D

 

[lazy gardener]

So, after your order comes, place $40.00 worth in a good vermipost bin, and place the other $40.00 worth in your BTE. Feed both batches well, and in a couple month's time, you will at least have recouped your initial investment. Or buy the smallest amount you can get, and put them in a bin, feed them well, then start populating your BTE with the surplus. They multiply like crazy.

 

[ageranger361]

So, after your order comes, place $40.00 worth in a good vermipost bin, and place the other $40.00 worth in your BTE. Feed both batches well, and in a couple month's time, you will at least have recouped your initial investment. Or buy the smallest amount you can get, and put them in a bin, feed them well, then start populating your BTE with the surplus. They multiply like crazy.

That’s what I’m hoping for but I’m going to wait until our day time temps are cooling off to order them. It’s too hot right now. Don’t want to stress them. I figured I would double the order and save on freight. I have a compost pile I can add them to also.

 

[Arielle2]

Can we keep this thread going???

I started watching CHarles DOwding, and how he starts with layers of cardboard but used composted material to add a layer every fall. For obvious reasons, ( a few horses) I need to pile up the manure so we are p iling into composting bins this year to heat it up better and kill of more germs.

Ealy blight seems the likely bugger to hit my young tomatoes. The benfit of using non-sterilized compost when repotting. ANd a deluge of rain to splash and nearly drown the plants. sigh.

have reseeded some varities and purchased a few more common varieites.

Planted in the new plants, and then covered bed with shavings to keep the soils from splashing on the leaves.

-----Shall we try to continue this thread??

 

[ShrekDawg]

Can we keep this thread going???

I started watching CHarles DOwding, and how he starts with layers of cardboard but used composted material to add a layer every fall. For obvious reasons, ( a few horses) I need to pile up the manure so we are p iling into composting bins this year to heat it up better and kill of more germs.

Ealy blight seems the likely bugger to hit my young tomatoes. The benfit of using non-sterilized compost when repotting. ANd a deluge of rain to splash and nearly drown the plants. sigh.

have reseeded some varities and purchased a few more common varieites.

Planted in the new plants, and then covered bed with shavings to keep the soils from splashing on the leaves.

-----Shall we try to continue this thread??

I think continuing this thread is a great idea!!

 

[Leahs Mom]

I always watch this thread!