BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[hellbender]

It doesn't seem to matter what thread I read, there are people who seem to be confused and/or hobbling along, so to speak, because they ask for advice and when good council is forthcoming....the only advice that might be heeded is that which the seeker has already set his/her mind to.

EDITED: for sloppy spelling.

 

[bramblefir]

I like the way you are trying out different kinds of chickens to see what you like best, and what works best in your system. I think we learn more by doing, observing and reflecting than all the obsessing/planning and researching. I don't understand some of what you posted though.

There are 365 days in a year, and if your hen molts quickly, she will be out of production 30 of those days. If she spends 2 months raising a single clutch of chicks, she is down to 270 days left in the year. Throw in raising a second clutch of chicks, and she has only 210 days to lay the 220 eggs you want out of her. Is that what you meant?

If you want larger size in your flock, why are you using a Hamburg cock?

If you want birds to take it easy on your delicate soil, why do you want them to hustle for their food? I thought hustling chickens meant scratching chickens, which are hard on the soil and plant roots, and the unwanted pests in the soil. (I have used my chickens to reduce the scorpions in my yard. Worked pretty well, but they left a lot of poop in inconvenient spots. In other years, they scratched up and ate all my new daylilies.)

Best wishes,
Angela

Excellent questions!

The total egg quantity would be based on a hen that doesn't go broody. I don't expect a good broody hen to lay that many eggs, her value is in raising chicks. I do want the broody hens to have the capacity to lay that many eggs though, if that makes sense.

The Hamburg breed was one that I was interested in and have decided doesn't suit my goals. Initially my plan was to keep a meatier cock and an egg-type cock, but I've since decided that I'd prefer a larger, meatier bird overall. The Hamburg cock will go just as soon as I have a suitable replacement of breeding age.

It's not so much a matter of not scratching as it is a matter of not scratching so aggressively. My feather-legged birds scratch just as much as the clean-legged but without digging as deeply or damaging as much plant matter. The feather-legged birds also prefer scratching in the compost or in the woods where it's easier for them to dig. It's also where I prefer them to dig. They hustle just fine, in fact one Brahma hen is eating so much on free-range that she has stopped eating the food I provide but is still laying at her normal rate and maintaining condition.

 

[bramblefir]

We had the livestock vet out the other day to assist us with an older alpaca that went down. We were teasing him about people taking their chickens to vets. He says he sometimes has people call him up asking if he knows anything about chickens. His response: "I know they're good barbequed."

 

[Our Roost]

Mmm hmm, so we need to be good teachers and listeners and not dictators?

 

[Beekissed]

My flock has ate significantly less this winter confined to their large coop. It's been a average below zero with knee deep snow.
They ate much more last summer free ranging. I don't know if it is because they were still growing or all the running around made them hungrier. I thought free ranging would save me feed $. I'm going to start this spring keeping them in there coop and large run and supplement greens the wife didn't like the poop all over anyway.

If you are not already doing it, try feeding them in the evening only...that way they forage all day before they hit the feeders, and try frost seeding some white dutch clover into your pasture..it has a 22-24% digestible protein, according to what time of year they are eating it.

Also, it can help if you create habitat for some larger meat protein like snake, lizard and frog habitat. My chickens are seen eating baby snakes several times a season and that's a lot of protein. I'll also leave old bales of hay sitting around at the edge of the woods and every week I flip them over to let the birds eat the worms collected there. Next week I'll do it again. I also do the same with several blocks of punky old wood at my wood line. It's just a type of habitat for more protein they don't have to really hunt much for.

There are 365 days in a year, and if your hen molts quickly, she will be out of production 30 of those days. If she spends 2 months raising a single clutch of chicks, she is down to 270 days left in the year. Throw in raising a second clutch of chicks, and she has only 210 days to lay the 220 eggs you want out of her. Is that what you meant?

If one breeds for birds who have a quick molt recovery and also molt late in the season when there is a natural slow down anyway, there shouldn't be a 30 day lapse in the laying cycle. A slow down, for sure, but not a total lapse. Those are traits that can be bred for.

If you want birds to take it easy on your delicate soil, why do you want them to hustle for their food? I thought hustling chickens meant scratching chickens, which are hard on the soil and plant roots, and the unwanted pests in the soil. (I have used my chickens to reduce the scorpions in my yard. Worked pretty well, but they left a lot of poop in inconvenient spots. In other years, they scratched up and ate all my new daylilies.)

Actually, the scratching aerates the soil and, unless one is overstocking any one area, the chickens shouldn't be doing that much damage to the roots. The only time chickens are going to damage soil and pasture to any degree is if they are heavily overstocked in one area.

Best wishes,
Angela

It doesn't seem to matter what thread I read, there are people who seem to be confused and/or hobbling along, so to speak, because they ask for advice and when good council is forthcoming....the only advice that might be heeded is that which the seeker has already set his/her mind to.

EDITED: for sloppy spelling.

I agree. There is very much of that kind of asking for advice on all forums...which is not asking for advice but asking for validation for decisions they've already made. It would be nice if they'd just clarify that to begin with so folks wouldn't waste their time with long, drawn out answers thinking they are helping those folks.

It would be nice if they would preface their questions with "I've already decided to do this __________ and am firmly set on it, but I would like to run it by you guys for a sounding board." At that time a person could then make an informed decision about whether to even reply.

 

[bnjrob]

We had the livestock vet out the other day to assist us with an older alpaca that went down. We were teasing him about people taking their chickens to vets. He says he sometimes has people call him up asking if he knows anything about chickens. His response: "I know they're good barbequed."

My husband gets phone calls to see if he is willing to see chickens, but very few people are willing to pay for a vet to see their chicken.

 

[hellbender]

My husband gets phone calls to see if he is willing to see chickens, but very few people are willing to pay for a vet to see their chicken.

What surprises me is the FACT that most vet schools don't even teach their students how to recognize the various eggs of the parasites that invade poultry yards. They simply can not recognize what they are seeing on the smear.

This is not a joke...I made a point to call around several Vet. offices and not one said they could make the correct identification.

Oh, I called Vets in WV, VA, and PA..

 

[neopolitancrazy]

Beekissed, the specific example of a destroyed daylily bed happened when I lived in the Ozarks on 8 acres of "dirty rocks" and my freshly de-rocked flower bed became the hens' new dustbath. Live and learn.
Your other points are well taken, I will disengage.
Best wishes,
Angela

 

[Beekissed]

Yep, they can destroy flower beds no matter the stocking rate, that's for sure. Don't know why they zero in on those things when they have all the pasture in the world to work on, but they do.

But, in regards to grass and soils, they don't do much damage to the quality of these at all if the stocking rate is not heavy. What they do scratch at while foraging for bugs seems to benefit from the "pruning" and it seems to invigorate the grass crown itself and stimulate more growth. Then they drop fertilizer so the grass can have more nourishment for that very purpose. Any time I've had chickens on lawn and/or pasture, they've increased the growth and health of both.

 

[bramblefir]

Yep, they can destroy flower beds no matter the stocking rate, that's for sure. Don't know why they zero in on those things when they have all the pasture in the world to work on, but they do.

But, in regards to grass and soils, they don't do much damage to the quality of these at all if the stocking rate is not heavy. What they do scratch at while foraging for bugs seems to benefit from the "pruning" and it seems to invigorate the grass crown itself and stimulate more growth. Then they drop fertilizer so the grass can have more nourishment for that very purpose. Any time I've had chickens on lawn and/or pasture, they've increased the growth and health of both.

Undoubtedly because they know you don't want them digging in it. Just like ours like to dig an 18" deep dust bath right in front of a frequently used gate. There's nothing like a rousing game of "Who Wants To Twist An Ankle?" to keep you on your toes, or off them. Thankfully we're able to keep ours far away from anything that we really, really don't want dug up.

We'll be building a coop on a different area of the property that we use less frequently for our larger livestock. The area the flock mostly roams is showing some erosion, likely because this particular area serves as a sacrifice pen when we're letting our other pastures rest. They have done some excellent work mixing in the compost to the soil in this area which has improved our heavy clay significantly. The new area they'll be going to is about 1.5 acres of pasture with woods nearby and a 60 acre tick-infested hillside next to it that I'm sure they'll find delightful.