BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[bnjrob]

I believe Chris also selects for broodiness which is handy.

M

LOL. Broodiness is great - until they all want to be broody and you can't get them to break so they'll lay some eggs. I swear, all I've had are broody hens since December among my breeders and then my food-egg layers started. Didn't get as many hatched this year as I would have liked because of the darn broodies not laying eggs. They do NOT like to work with my schedule.

 

[southernmomma]

LOL. Broodiness is great - until they all want to be broody and you can't get them to break so they'll lay some eggs. I swear, all I've had are broody hens since December among my breeders and then my food-egg layers started. Didn't get as many hatched this year as I would have liked because of the darn broodies not laying eggs. They do NOT like to work with my schedule.

Do you let them raise up chicks? I'm infatuated with the idea of broodies and rather like the idea of working on their schedule~ Perhaps I'll change my tune with faced with the issue though

M

 

[ronott1]

please, please, please y'all do this!!!
It drives me mad trying to find carcass pictures. It's like some giant secret~ shhh, don't tell anyone we actually EAT our livestock, lol. Even if pressed, folks use really generalized terms to describe carcass quality, so the information is ultimately useless.
I think it's interesting that several people on this thread are moving in the same direction ~ sustainability seems to be a key word.

M

You did see the ones I posted early in the thread?

I will post more this year but it will be later.

 

[ronott1]

I have read recently several people trying out mineral oil wiped on the eggs for long term storage. One woman showed photos after a year and said she was thrilled with the results. I know that besides putting into brine or lime water, that they used to pour lard or tallow over eggs for storage. So I've now started putting mineral oil on ours to keep them longer, in addition to working on some dehydrating of eggs. We're running an abundance of eggs here also even though I've had broody hens coming out my eyeballs since December, and this year's pullets haven't started laying yet.

Eggs can be dehydrated too. A co worker dehydrated some eggs from my flock. It made a nice powder--that can be made into scrambled eggs or substituted for fresh eggs in baking. I think it said they were good for several years.

 

[bnjrob]

Do you let them raise up chicks? I'm infatuated with the idea of broodies and rather like the idea of working on their schedule~ Perhaps I'll change my tune with faced with the issue though

M

I gave eggs to one last year. Only one hatched and that one ended up getting squished flat by the hen when it was only a few days old. She was more than happy to sit on the eggs, but she wasn't wanting to teach it to eat or drink and when I didn't see it for a while, I pulled her out of the nest and found it flat as a pancake underneath her. After that I decided that none of them would raise chicks until I had more good breeding stock raised and could risk having some lousy first time mothers that might not do well hatching/raising. If I could just go to the feed store and get more, I would risk it again sooner. Next year may be different since the hens that hatched last year will be ready for use as breeders.

 

[gjensen]

Last year I let my flock of hatchery birds (NH,BR etc) have full run of the property, 3 acres plus some woods, for 6 months. Feed consumption was cut be almost half, but I got tired of them tearing everything up and pooping everywhere, plus I finally did take a hit from a coyote in the middle of the afternoon. This year they have a yard area of over 8,000 square feet for 4-6 week intervals, before I move them to fresh ground. Compared to last year, the reduction in feed consumption is minimal, except for when I move them into plots that I have specifically planted for them, such as clover or the compost pile. To truly reduce feed consumption, I think you need acreage to forage in. A dog would probably be the best form of protection for this type of free ranging.

This year, I got a line of BR that have been bred with an emphasis on meat production. I would be very interested and I think fun, if we posted carcass pictures of dressed cockerels with age and weights provided and a few comments on management methods. Arielle could post here Buckeyes, Gjensen his New Hamps. just to name a few. My chicks are 3 weeks old, so most of you are probably running ahead of me.

I would be open to the idea.

I would like to add weight, qty of feed to get them there, management style, and age. Otherwise it would not be comparing apples to apples. I can get a prettier carcass later, but I find the quality of flesh is better at the younger ages. I will not process a male for meat once they begin to crow. I prefer them a lot younger, and younger than most grow them out to.
For example the Rocks that you have, I processed them at 14,16, and 20wks, and preferred the younger birds. Even that there was not the same qty. of flesh. The quality of flesh was better. Not so stringy as older birds.
I cannot afford to put into them what I would have to purchasing rib eye steak. I am going to get them at the peak of their growth curve. That varies from strain to strain, but I will identify it and utilize it.
I am not a wealthy person. I do not have the luxury to do otherwise.

There is a lot to consider evaluating one of the birds. Not just how it looks. I have always wished that we could do laying trials and meat bird contests like earlier on. There is just no incentive anymore to do it. I would like to be able to see real numbers concerning different strains out there. When they were independently evaluated in similar conditions.

I like traditional simple crosses for meat birds also. A sex linked cross where the females were used for layers, and the males were processed. You are still keeping and preserving two strains of pure bred birds. The added vigor makes a world of difference.
The right two strains can work really well.

 

[southernmomma]

I gave eggs to one last year. Only one hatched and that one ended up getting squished flat by the hen when it was only a few days old. She was more than happy to sit on the eggs, but she wasn't wanting to teach it to eat or drink and when I didn't see it for a while, I pulled her out of the nest and found it flat as a pancake underneath her. After that I decided that none of them would raise chicks until I had more good breeding stock raised and could risk having some lousy first time mothers that might not do well hatching/raising. If I could just go to the feed store and get more, I would risk it again sooner. Next year may be different since the hens that hatched last year will be ready for use as breeders.

Oh geez, that would be disheartening for sure~ I can understand your caution!

I would be open to the idea.

I would like to add weight, qty of feed to get them there, management style, and age. Otherwise it would not be comparing apples to apples. I can get a prettier carcass later, but I find the quality of flesh is better at the younger ages. I will not process a male for meat once they begin to crow. I prefer them a lot younger, and younger than most grow them out to.
For example the Rocks that you have, I processed them at 14,16, and 20wks, and preferred the younger birds. Even that there was not the same qty. of flesh. The quality of flesh was better. Not so stringy as older birds.
I cannot afford to put into them what I would have to purchasing rib eye steak. I am going to get them at the peak of their growth curve. That varies from strain to strain, but I will identify it and utilize it.
I am not a wealthy person. I do not have the luxury to do otherwise.

There is a lot to consider evaluating one of the birds. Not just how it looks. I have always wished that we could do laying trials and meat bird contests like earlier on. There is just no incentive anymore to do it. I would like to be able to see real numbers concerning different strains out there. When they were independently evaluated in similar conditions.

I like traditional simple crosses for meat birds also. A sex linked cross where the females were used for layers, and the males were processed. You are still keeping and preserving two strains of pure bred birds. The added vigor makes a world of difference.
The right two strains can work really well.

Excellent suggestion! It would give us all a base line in a way. It would lend some definition to time as well- better than "they took a long time to grow", lol.
How does one determine the right two strains to use? The meat bird threads are littered with experiments.

You did see the ones I posted early in the thread?

I will post more this year but it will be later.

The Bresse and Basque, correct? I think I saw them on another thread....I will go back through this one.


M

 

[gjensen]

The right two strains would take some trying. They will not all "nick". First you are looking for in the parent strains what you want to find in the offspring. Maybe some compensating traits.

The first chicken of tomorrow contests were won by New Hampshires. The later trials were won by New Hampshire Cornish crosses. Which of course led to specialized Plymouth Rock strains x Cornish.

Today they are not simply Cornish x Rocks as the nick name implies, but this is where the notion comes from. Originally they were simple crosses. The White Plymouth Rock developed for faster meatier growth had an advantage over the New Hampshire from the color of the feathers.

This is where the notion that the New Hampshires should be a lighter color by the New Hampshire bantam breeders. Early meat strains were lighter in color and had a light under color. The Standard New Hampshire is a dual purpose bird and not purely a meat bird.
There was laying strains of New Hampshire also. They were competing quite well in the laying trials, before they figured out it did not make sense to go with the heavier breeds for egg laying alone. These birds were darker in color, and of course had lighter weights.

Eventually the lighter Leghorns, and specialized strains of Rhode Island Reds took over. These Rhode Island Reds were not the Standard Rhode Island Reds.

This is also the time period where there was a split between commercial interests and breed enthusiasts. Purely commercial interests led these strains away from the breed type and character. They developed them into something new all together. We still see that split today. It is discussed on this board all of the time.

I find myself in the middle of the two extremes. I am not interested in purely exhibition poultry. Ornamentals are not my thing, but if I was going to go towards the other extreme, I would develop something new all together. I actually like the idea of it, but have not decided to make a decade long commitment for no real good reason.
What does fascinate me about the idea is that we have access to genetics that we did not have access to in the past. We have access to the best performing birds that the world has ever known.

I guess that I would prefer to try to rebuild a strain of a breed with some history. That holds my interest more. The challenge of breeding birds that are respectable in quality and perform reasonably well. These birds are exceedingly rare.

If the color of the feathers was not a concern, I would like to try the Reese Dark Cornish over New Hampshires. The New Hampshires on the female side for the egg laying ability. It would be easier to get some numbers on the ground.

 

[LindaB220]

The right two strains would take some trying. They will not all "nick". First you are looking for in the parent strains what you want to find in the offspring. Maybe some compensating traits.

The first chicken of tomorrow contests were won by New Hampshires. The later trials were won by New Hampshire Cornish crosses. Which of course led to specialized Plymouth Rock strains x Cornish.

Today they are not simply Cornish x Rocks as the nick name implies, but this is where the notion comes from. Originally they were simple crosses. The White Plymouth Rock developed for faster meatier growth had an advantage over the New Hampshire from the color of the feathers.

This is where the notion that the New Hampshires should be a lighter color by the New Hampshire bantam breeders. Early meat strains were lighter in color and had a light under color. The Standard New Hampshire is a dual purpose bird and not purely a meat bird.
There was laying strains of New Hampshire also. They were competing quite well in the laying trials, before they figured out it did not make sense to go with the heavier breeds for egg laying alone. These birds were darker in color, and of course had lighter weights.

Eventually the lighter Leghorns, and specialized strains of Rhode Island Reds took over. These Rhode Island Reds were not the Standard Rhode Island Reds.

This is also the time period where there was a split between commercial interests and breed enthusiasts. Purely commercial interests led these strains away from the breed type and character. They developed them into something new all together. We still see that split today. It is discussed on this board all of the time.

I find myself in the middle of the two extremes. I am not interested in purely exhibition poultry. Ornamentals are not my thing, but if I was going to go towards the other extreme, I would develop something new all together. I actually like the idea of it, but have not decided to make a decade long commitment for no real good reason.
What does fascinate me about the idea is that we have access to genetics that we did not have access to in the past. We have access to the best performing birds that the world has ever known.

I guess that I would prefer to try to rebuild a strain of a breed with some history. That holds my interest more. The challenge of breeding birds that are respectable in quality and perform reasonably well. These birds are exceedingly rare.

If the color of the feathers was not a concern, I would like to try the Reese Dark Cornish over New Hampshires. The New Hampshires on the female side for the egg laying ability. It would be easier to get some numbers on the ground.

A very interesting informative post. Kudos

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Funny you mention this. I pulled out a carton of duck eggs from the refrig. Been about a year as I didn't know what to do with them. Not washed, Just collected, set into a carton and refigerated. Several were good, and several were

. THe insides turned a strange while mold like material. Yuk. Scrambled up the good eggs and fed that to the chicks..

In the freezer I know little can grow' or at least it grows very very slowly . . . and I always cook such eggs. IMO boiled eggs in brine is a good choice: vinegar and water and spices. Posiblly dehydrated too-- oly that takes energy.

Looks like you are in a dry spell.

Quote: THe only pics I have would be hatchery carcasses. LEgs big, breast pathetic. Makes a meal for 4 and then soup! lol

Yes, Sustainability!!! I figure when the world goes to hell, I'll still be able to put food on the table. Can you imagine the price of eggs then?? Or the price of a roasted chicken?? lol