BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

These projects are ver much work in progress, ha, I have only realy started to keep records this year.
Good La Bresse and Cornish utiliy strains are hard to come by here in the UK so i have taken my time and started with the best i could find.

This year i have had very bad hatches with the LB and what i have hatched were all hens

so were kept as breeders, the cockerel is quite old but very large (11lb) so next year i will be looking to use a high protien feed and reduce the numbers of hens in his breeding pen, hopfully getting some cockerels for the table and a replacement for him, i would rather have offspring from him than buy in replacement.
The Hens lay very well, i havnt counted but in excess of 250, i used to have White Leghorns but as my LB matched them for egg numbers and egg size (average 70-75g) i sold the WLH's, also didnt want too many white birds.

This years Dak Cornish were used to increase my stock, i also sold 2 breeding groups to local guys interested in the breed, this will be handy for me to have local breeders in the future for me to outcross with. The Cockerels were 5 - 5.5lb at 16 weeks.

As well as breeding both DC & LB next year i will be crossing them for a faster maturing larger bird

The batch of Poulet Galouise i raised processed out at 7 - 7.7 lb at 14 weeks (2 weeks longer than recomended)
They consumed 22 lb of feed each and were raised free range, the total cost was £4.60 per bird (not sure what that is in $)

we have very fertile fields with lots of clover and chick weeds so ideal for raising chickens they also had los of fruit and veg from th garden.

I will be raising more PG's next year as well as crossing DC x PG and LB x PG then bringing both lines together for some interesting results (hopfully).

Thank you. There is not any large commercial hatcheries there, is there?

I like the Cornish. The La Bresse looks like they have more to them than what we have.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Dave C]

There is for hybrids, both layers and meat birds and All the duel purpose breeds are mainly egg producers now.
You have to find small scale hobby breeders but one's breeding for utility and not show are hard to come by.
The LB & DC or especially hard to find that is why I don't really want to buy in another LB cockerel yet.

Thanks JRNash, the LB can be quite flighty when young, the birds I bred this year are about 21 weeks old now and about ready to come into lay, they have settled down nicely now.
Which is nice because I was picking them out of trees eight weeks ago, ha.

 

[JRNash]

Greenfire Farms carries an "American Bresse" It looks NOTHING. Like Dave's birds. Dave's birds make Greenfire's look like leghorns.

 

[gjensen]

There is for hybrids, both layers and meat birds and All the duel purpose breeds are mainly egg producers now.
You have to find small scale hobby breeders but one's breeding for utility and not show are hard to come by.
The LB & DC or especially hard to find that is why I don't really want to buy in another LB cockerel yet.

Thanks JRNash, the LB can be quite flighty when young, the birds I bred this year are about 21 weeks old now and about ready to come into lay, they have settled down nicely now.
Which is nice because I was picking them out of trees eight weeks ago, ha.

They are not quite like the hatcheries that we have. Ours are set up differently. Some are huge.

It is hard to find anyone breeding utility strains here also. I know very few. Some that think that they are. Some that say that they are. There does seam to be some that are interested, and are learning about it. Hopefully these will settle into their own place, and take an interest in something specific. Stick to it, and master the craft.

The unique niche that we do not have occupied is breeders of "pure breeds" that are also bred to be productive. We are losing what we had. In many cases, we have lost it.

Times change. People change. I admit that I am nostalgic for what breeding poultry used to be as we were developing many of our pure breeds to be productive.

 

[gjensen]

Greenfire Farms carries an "American Bresse" It looks NOTHING. Like Dave's birds. Dave's birds make Greenfire's look like leghorns.

I try to tell people that they are getting robbed by purchasing many of their birds. They can't hear it though, and they cannot see it. It is the same with most of the hatchery birds, but they are a dime a dozen. In this case, people are getting what they pay for. In the other case, they are not getting what they pay for.

 

[JRNash]

@Gjensen, some folks beleive that the MORE they pay for something,the better it is. Greenfire play's on this very well.I see a lot of advertising where the only claim to fame is Greenfire's lines. I subscribe to the school of thought that once you have control of the birds then you should NOT market the offspring as being of the original strain. Everyone has an eye for different attributes,what they find appealing.

 

[JRNash]

If availability is so restricted it forces you to buy from places like Greenfire's,I don't have a problem with it. People should look at it as a starting point,not and end point. Trying to refine and improve on all strains IMO should be the goal. That and having FUN

 

[hellbender]

@Gjensen, some folks beleive that the MORE they pay for something,the better it is. Greenfire play's on this very well.I see a lot of advertising where the only claim to fame is Greenfire's lines. I subscribe to the school of thought that once you have control of the birds then you should NOT market the offspring as being of the original strain. Everyone has an eye for different attributes,what they find appealing.

@JRNash that's a very profound statement and one that I adhere to. It should also be clear to all who can read that I believe in the strength of hybridization. That's the very reason I started this thread....to give folks who do not buy the dogma of purebred/APA superiority in livestock, including chickens a platform.

As a hobby/sometimes pro-handler at some of the most prestigious dog shows in the country, I watch the insidious destruction of any/all breeds of working/hunting breeds go straight to hell, due to their "pedigreed status' and AKC registration. If one is not already out there, I will not be surprised when the first Chicken Registry is organized.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

@Gjensen, some folks beleive that the MORE they pay for something,the better it is. Greenfire play's on this very well.I see a lot of advertising where the only claim to fame is Greenfire's lines. I subscribe to the school of thought that once you have control of the birds then you should NOT market the offspring as being of the original strain. Everyone has an eye for different attributes,what they find appealing.

This resonates a lot with me because I have Cream Legbars (and hang out on that thread). While they are pretty, one of the primary goals in the development of the cream legbar breed was clear auto sexing - and also, good production of reliably blue eggs (though some UK birds lay green ones) - both egg production goals (it being important to identify pullets up front). The breed has not been in the US for very long, and there's some limited genetics, which means the breed needs some work. Unfortunately, CL chicks command a high price - that means that while there are some dedicated breeders that appropriately cull, others just hatch a lot of chicks to sell for a lot of money (no culling/selection). In addition, one line (Jill Rees line out of the UK, now the only origin line sold from Greenfire) is now popular and is kind of taking over among the birds sold now. These birds have been selected for award winning adult plumage - and clear auto sexing is not as good and is quickly being lost (and there are more greenish eggs). So the key distinctive features of the breed are being lost in favor of subtle differences in feather color and pattern that win at poultry shows. It makes me NUTS!!!!! It's alarming how quickly things can go downhill without proper attention to selection. I have three pullets from a HATCHERY that showed better auto sexing features (especially 2 of them) than current ones coming out of some "breeder" sources (and even some coming from Greenfire) - and they are also pretty lovely ladies. I sure hope Greenfire is working on improving auto sexing in the Rees line. The tough thing with auto sexing is that you have to have good record keeping and good ethics - the auto sexing is at hatch, and you have to keep track of the ones who were clear/obvious and only breed from those (even if it gives you fewer chicks to sell). Also, there's no way to judge an adult bird's auto sexing features - only the adult plumage. I'm not a breeder - I don't have either the facilities or the time currently to hatch and then cull the large numbers of chicks/birds necessary to do it right. But it's enough to tempt me to, just out of frustration, to try to preserve these features.

- Ant Farm

 

[JRNash]

@Hellbender don't get me wrong,I do enjoy the purebloods the aristocrats. But for me personally its a way IMO of starting with known fixed attributes as I play with my own hybrids. And honestly if it wasn't for people thinking this way with similar goals we would IMO still be getting eggs from Junglefowl and their kindred