Cedar Creek Hatchery - KEEP AWAY!

[jso2]

Hi,

I've seen several posts asking about this hatchery. I used them last year for the first time and had an awful experience. When I emailed the owners back in August of '13, I never heard any response. I was very disappointed. Here is my email to them:


"Hi,

We ordered 25 birds from you in March, which arrived on April 11th. When the order arrived, I emailed you with the following questions:

"Question: With this past order, I ordered 18 Crosses, but after we separated the layers from the others, we noticed that about 7 of them look very different than the other Crosses. Instead of a light yellow body and white tipped wings, they have 2 brown lines going down their backs, dark brown wings, and 2 black dots on the tops of their heads. What are those? Is that just a different way a Cross can come out? Or are they a different breed of meat bird? Or layers? Just wondering.

Also, what I believe is my barred rock boy (black with white head) has feathered shanks. I know the Marans have feathered legs/feet, and that you sent the Cuckoo Maran as a replacement, but the Cuckoo is yellow, right? Just trying to figure out who is who."

You had responded:

"Yes, the off colored Rock crosses have Dark Cornish in them. we consider them more free range, but are the same cross, just different coloring. Sorry, but we didn't have enough of the white ones and knew you didn't want to wait another week. The Barred Rock shouldn't have feathers on his legs. If we made a mistake, we apologize and will credit you for the Barred Rock cockerel."


As an update, 14 of the 18 "Cornish Cross" turned out to be something VERY different than a standard meat bird. I've attached two photos we took of them at 11 weeks old (we process our real broilers at 7 weeks). You can see that they look nothing like a Cross. There appeared to be 4 leghorns, and I have no idea about the others, but at 11 weeks they were all the size of a leghorn. We processed them at 13 weeks old. The max weight I got for any of them was 2.1 pounds, with an average weight of 1.4 pounds. My broilers are in the 4.5 - 5.5 range. This meant that I had to pay for feed for 14 birds for double the amount of time, to get a carcass not worth cutting up. The reason I kept waiting to process them was becuase I thought that maybe the "Dark" ones you mentioned were a slower grower, taking the full 12 weeks. I had to pay $2/bird to process them, not to mention the $2/bird I paid you for them in the first place. Lots of money for almost no meat.

Besides being a big waste of money, these birds were very mean. Back when we thought they were Crosses, just dark ones like you said, we had them in the chicken tractor with our other broilers from the farm store (we went through 2 batches of real Crosses that we ended up getting at the farm store before these mix-up birds were ready). While still small (even for them) these birds from you became violent with 5 of the broilers, killing 2 and then pulling out their endtrails, and seriously wounding 3 others in the rear in what appeared to be an attempt to canabalize them as well. The Crosses, being slow were unable to move away from these birds. This all happened in one day, after which your birds were removed and put in the pen seen in the picture. So, besides them costing me the money noted above, they also cost me 2 of my broilers (which average in sales at $15/bird). When they were in their own pen, they did nothing but try to fight each other. Jump-kicking, pecking, puffing up neck feathers. They were crazy.

As for the other birds I ordered, the Barred Rock cockerel I ordered did end up being some other breed with feathered shanks, and a mean one at that who was cruel to my hens and so was also processed.

SO, out of 25 birds, only 10 were correct. This means that $30 of my $84.25 was charged to me for something I did not order.

(Copy of PayPal invoice)
Note to recipient

Java - $7
California Gray - $3.50 p
Delaware - $3.50 p
Bluebell - $4.75 p
Golden Comet - $3.50 p
Blue Laced Red Wyandotte - $6 p
Barred Rock - $2 p
18 Cornish/Rock Cross $36
shipping - $18
Total: $84.25

I have been disappointed with this transaction since our early emails, and now because of how it all turned out I don't think I could ever do business with you again. But I would hate to have to tell my other chicken-purchasing friends about this, not to mention all of the online forums I am a part of. I do feel like I would need to warn others though, so they don't go through the same frustions. Doing business with you has cost me stresses and extra financial costs that weren't planned on. Please contact me with how you plan on resolving this issue."

So, if you're looking for a hatchery in Michigan, I would strongly recommend you look somewhere other than Cedar Creek.
Below is a picture of these "Darker Cornish Cross" chickens at 11 weeks old...

 

[DelcoChix]

I had a similar experience with them last year---still don't know what a couple of the birds were/are. And never received the NPIP papers I was promised so my dd could take one of them to the county fair. It's a shame overall, to take what is such an exciting experience for some of us and make it into such a negative experience. Althoug I knew 'feather sexing' is mostly luck I'd simply hoped paying a little extra would have resulted in improving the odds over getting mostly males...totally wrong on that count. Ended up with 12 cockerals out of 21 birds. I'd ordered 20 so got a bonus, but I certainly didn't get what I'd ordered. Don't understand why folks don't feel honesty isn't a good thing--sad thing is, if I'd had gotten open, honest treatment, along with details on exactly what kinds of birds I'd ended up with I might have gone back to them. You can do a search on BYC for details if you're interested, but bottom line is, there are plenty of honest folks out there to deal with--my $186 lost is a hard lesson learned that I won't soon forget.

 

[Baybrio]

I'm glad you posted this info. I'm not one for making negative comments in public, like you I prefer to work things out in private. But these forums are about the only way I learn about what to expect from different hatcheries.

This hatchery has an awesome web site. I wanted to order from them. It's too bad nobody is posting great reviews then your experience would be the exception, but sadly, I have not found the positive reviews.

Somewhere I read that feather sexing works great if the line of birds has the feather sexing gene bred into them, otherwise probably not very reliable.

 

[ladycat]

I ordered from them for the first and last time last year!

I ordered 10 Black-tailed Buff Marans and 5 Silver Cuckoo Marans

I got ONE Silver Cuckoo Marans and a bunch of mix breeds!!! Complaining does no good with them, they get defensive and act like you (the customer), don't know anything about chickens.

 

[donrae]

jso....I just wanted to say your black chick with feathered legs and a white dot on the head sure sounds like a cuckoo Marans...they're not yellow. I know you said he's butchered, just wanted to let you know that for future reference.

 

[ChuskaMtns]

I wish I'd seen this post before I ordered from them! Ordered lavender orp eggs, didn't hear anything, then finally eggs show up but they're dark brown! Emailed them & they said orps were taken out by predators so they sent me Golden Marans eggs. Not 1 hatched. Told them they were infertile & they said it was my incubator. I placed 12 orp eggs in my Brinsea Advanced & 10 hatched so highly doubt it was my Brinsea. Beware of this hatchery!

 

[lgc1970]

I have to ask... Can I post an email thread that has profanity from the other guy in it? I don't want to change anything, but I don't want to have someone get upset with me either... Please let me know if this needs to be changed and I will go in and alter those words that the guy wrote. I am sorry in advance. But this is my back and forth with Cedar Creek Hatchery in Twin Lakes, MI. You might want to start at the bottom. Lisa, First of all you ******* *****. You ordered eggs from us we did not solicite your order. We were honest with you and told you the Dark brahmas were not laying that well. You not us made the decision to take other brahmas. If you would have called or emailed before you ordered we would have told you they were not laying that well. You could have waited to see if they started to lay better. You not us wanted what we had to ship out. And all of that is in the emails *****. If I ever see you posting anything about us or call us or email us again. Your going to need more than a ******* lawyer ****. **** offffff you worthless *****. On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Lisa Claus wrote: You are a business, swearing in any manner is unacceptable. Customers are your only way to glean monies for your business, so you really should try to keep the ones that you have. You know nothing about me yet you chose to swear and be very unprofessional. So, curb your 'tude and try reading what I am writing. I pulled the eggs on Day 9, but could see that they were yolkers or clears on Day 5. In lighter shelled eggs I like to see the heart beat, which you can see only on Days 5 and 6 (if you knew what candling was maybe you would have already known this fact), and I look at the veining that has started on Day 4 (eggs that have veining in a cluster formation rather than a scattered spider web do better, so I keep those eggs with scattered veining separate and handle even more carefully). Only 3 of the eggs that you sent had air sacs that rocked around the egg, 2 of those developed blood rings the other never did anything. 7 of the eggs you sent, when I pulled them on Day 9, did not have the bullseye (the white dot that is the pre-embryo) on the yolks. In fact, they looked like regular eggs from the store even though they had been incubating for nearly 10 days. All 7 of them were the same, no bullseye. 1 of the remaining eggs was weeping, meaning a crack in the egg, I pulled that one the moment I found the egg white sticking it to my tray. 3 had small blood rings (a blood ring that forms early in incubation is most likely from improper nutrition or improper management of the breeder flock) that I could see on Day 5, but I left them until Day 9 with the yolkers as I just do that. Run down: 7 eggs (1 with a loose air sac) were yolkers, 3 (2 with loose air sacs) developed blood rings, 1 was cracked, and 1 is developing. The eggs you sent were right next to 12 other eggs that have been in the incubator for just 2 days longer; of those only 1 has been removed the other 11 are doing well. Those eggs were also shipped. I am not kidding or making this up. Is this where I get to call you names? Same incubator, same conditions, same handling on my part, but your eggs are not viable; save for 1. This is after already having been given a short order of only 4 Dark Brahma eggs even though I had ordered 12. The remaining 8 had been replaced with what you had said were Buff and Light Brahmas. Your website makes no mention of not being able to ship out what has been ordered, or that you would try to replace the eggs with something else other than what was ordered. The first I had it mentioned to me was in the email you sent to me a couple days after I placed my order. Then, after I responded it took you nearly a week and a second email from me for you to let me know that the eggs were even being shipped and what would 'probably' be in the order, but quite frankly other the email below I really have no idea. This would have been the moment to show some customer service and mark the eggs, since I was receiving something that I had not actually ordered. I have read well over 100 reviews (this is only some of them) about your company not sending what was ordered, sending out only partial orders and not sending out the remaining order, sending chicks that died along the way and not replacing the chicks, and then there is your BBB D rating. You obviously have a lot to learn about customer service. I am a member of a chicken discussion site that has nearly 80,000 members, and I will be letting all of my friends know how you handled this matter. I will be posting your email on the site for their reference, and letting them decide for themselves if they want to pay you for anything in the future. And you obviously do not know what Bait and Switch is. It is the listing or advertising of an item that you cannot or do not intend to sell, with instead the intent to switch it to something else that you have in stock. It is illegal, and the 'terms and conditions' that you list on your site can be easily negated in a court room simply by referring to Bait and Switch cases from the past. Your T&Cs actually state that you do not have to send what is ordered, which is classic Bait and Switch. Just because nature can be unpredictable it does not give anyone the right to switch the product or not provide a product at all. Telling a potential customer that you get more money from hatching eggs and that they needn't bother trying to drive down to pick up any chicks is also a poor way to run a company. Companies seem to do these things when they are not run properly. If you take the time to reread my emails and do some research about your company on the WWW, then you may learn that you should try to take better care of any customers you may have before you alienate the rest of them. Hint on your fertility: You should be able to hatch out more than 95% of the eggs from your chickens at your site, but some of your web info says that you do not. This is a big red flag!! Amazed at the lack of respect, Still Waiting for the Refund On Jul 2, 2014, at 1:56 PM, Joe Brezina wrote: Lisa, We are a hatchery all the eggs we send out are the same ones we set for our self. All are eggs are fertile hatching eggs. We do not have eggs sitting around for shipping and then other eggs to set our self's. For you to come at us like this is ridiculous. Maybe you should not spend so much time reading *** holes comments on some website.And more time taking care of your incubator. If you would just have said you are not having a good hatch I would Have sent you replacement eggs out. We don't advertise that, we do that it encourages slime balls to say they had a bad hatch. And for you to say its not the usps is a ******* joke. If anything did go wrong it would be from there mishandling them. And there is no way at 5 days you can candle eggs properly. And if they were infertile how do you have one developing. none of them would be. So please hire a lawyer and sue me for the cost of the hatching eggs. And I will bring in the terms and conditions that you agreed to before you ordered that you seen to have read. Thank you Cedar Creek On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Lisa Claus wrote: To let you know on Day 5: 1 egg weeped, 7 eggs were found infertile, and 3 eggs had blood rings. Only 1 of the 12 eggs is developing. I have 11 of 12 other eggs that were shipped to me just a few days before these that are developing right along side this lone egg. The unfertilized eggs and blood rings are things that you need to correct. These things are not my doing or that of the USPS, and you need to provide a refund. I understand that you post the "not our problem once they are handed off to the USPS" clause. But you cannot provide unfertilized eggs and eggs that do not have a shot because your birds are getting proper nutrition, and expect people to just accept it. First, your website does not discuss shortages on hatching eggs. Second, you attempt, and from what I can discern from other reviews posted about your business, succeed at the Bait and Switch, which is illegal. Third, you provide infertile or unviable eggs. I expect a full refund. If you choose to stand behind your claim of USPS, then expect a call from my lawyer. At worst case for me you will be fined for the Bait and Switch tactics, which is NOT a small claims court finding. I am expecting a check via USPS mail within the next 3 weeks or my lawyer from Michigan will be contacting you. Sincerely, Lisa Claus 9878 Fallen Rock Road Conifer, CO 80433 On Jun 17, 2014, at 12:38 PM, Joe Brezina wrote: Lisa, The eggs will be shipped out tomorrow. Sorry I did not get back sooner. They will most likely be 4,4 and 4 from all three colors. Thank you Cedar Creek On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Lisa Claus wrote: Joe Brezina, Do you think that you are going to be able to send out the hatching eggs that I ordered? I do not have the luxury to keep my incubator running all summer. I need to be done setting eggs by June 20, 2014. Your website does not make any statement of possible delays or that some eggs are in short supply. Only your single email attached below introduces the idea that you do not have what you claim to have on your website. So, with my response to this email having been 5 days ago, I was expecting to here something, anything, to my statement of having ordered what I wanted, DARK BRAHMA hatching eggs. If you are unable to fill an order, then why do your customers still have the ability to order these items? If you cannot send this order by tomorrow, then I will need the order delayed until August 20, 2014, or a full refund. Thank you in advance for your time, Lisa > On Jun 11, 2014, at 10:32 AM, Joe Brezina wrote: > > Lisa, > We have received your order thank you. Our dark Brahmas are not laying right now (very little). Our buffs and lights are laying. I will leave it up to you we can wait a week or two to see if the darks start laying again. Or we can send out buffs and lights. Or all three if we get a egg or two of the darks. Please advise on how you would like to proceed. > > Thank you > Cedar Creek

 

[lgc1970]

Okay, no problem the program changed those words for me... Whew!!

Seriously Love Spell Check.

 

[lgc1970]

Way wish I had thought that this type of experience would extend to eggs, but I just thought that telling a local to not bother because they concentrate on hatching eggs meant they actually concentrated on hatching eggs.

Sucks to be me I guess.

 

[ChuskaMtns]

So sorry you joined the Burned by CCH Club. I ended up finding some wonderful Lavender Orp breeders on the For Sale page. Got myself some wonderful fertile eggs and now have some beautiful Lavs! Good luck to you!