Creating the silver welbar

[Dazed and Confused]

I have 2 eggs in the incubator, hatching in 1 week. The eggs are from a partridge Welbar rooster over a Barred Rock hen. when this cross is done with a welsummer, the chicks are sex linked. Is this also Going to be the case over the welbar? Or is the extra barring going to change things?

In my quest for a silver welbar, I am also putting a welbar cockerel over a silver welsummer hen, and a silver welsummer (well, split silver and partridge) cockerel over a welbar hen. i am clearly over engineering this, but I’m quite excited to see what we get, in many cases the ’waste’ in the process will still be recognised breeds (welsummer and welbar) which will really help when it comes to selling Off spare stock Until I get to my double barred, double silver cockerel.

if anyone is interested, I’ll take some photos of the breeding groups.

 

[The Moonshiner]

I'm interested in seeing them and following your project.

 

[nicalandia]

I have 2 eggs in the incubator, hatching in 1 week. The eggs are from a partridge Welbar rooster over a Barred Rock hen. when this cross is done with a welsummer, the chicks are sex linked. Is this also Going to be the case over the welbar? Or is the extra barring going to change things?

Since both the Welbar(Autosexing Welsummer) and Barred Rock carry sex linked barring(or at least to be named Welbar the male should carry two copies of barring) this cross will not create visibly sex links as both will be Black Down with headspots. The hens will cary gold and the males will be Silver(S/s+) but that can't be determined visibly in the cross until they start to feather out

In my quest for a silver welbar, I am also putting a welbar cockerel over a silver welsummer hen, and a silver welsummer (well, split silver and partridge) cockerel over a welbar hen. i am clearly over engineering this, but I’m quite excited to see what we get, in many cases the ’waste’ in the process will still be recognised breeds (welsummer and welbar) which will really help when it comes to selling Off spare stock Until I get to my double barred, double silver cockerel.

if anyone is interested, I’ll take some photos of the breeding groups.

Only the females of those two crosses would be considered Recognized breeds(Welbar females from the first cross), Partridge Welsummer and Silver Welsummer from the second one. The Cockerels will all be split for Barring and split for Silver/gold

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Since both the Welbar(Autosexing Welsummer) and Barred Rock carry sex linked barring(or at least to be named Welbar the male should carry two copies of barring) this cross will not create visibly sex links as both will be Black Down with headspots. The hens will cary gold and the males will be Silver(S/s+) but that can't be determined visibly in the cross until they start to feather out

thanks, That is what I thought.
So things are as follows:
Breeding Group 1 - Welbar x Barred Rock (2 eggs currently on the heat)
Breeding Group 2 - Welbar x Silver Duckwing Welsummer (not yet laying)
Breeding Group 3 - Gold Duckwing Welsummer x Welbar (should have 8+ eggs on in 2 weeks)

Below are pictures Group 1 birds

 

[dheltzel]

Since both the Welbar(Autosexing Welsummer) and Barred Rock carry sex linked barring(or at least to be named Welbar the male should carry two copies of barring) this cross will not create visibly sex links as both will be Black Down with headspots. The hens will cary gold and the males will be Silver(S/s+) but that can't be determined visibly in the cross until they start to feather out



Only the females of those two crosses would be considered Recognized breeds(Welbar females from the first cross), Partridge Welsummer and Silver Welsummer from the second one. The Cockerels will all be split for Barring and split for Silver/gold

It is great to hear from you again! You may not remember me, but you assisted me in figuring out the genetics of autosexing and particularly the Welbar. I did successfully create my own line of welbars about 5 years ago and have been breeding and selling them ever since. They improve every year. This year my focus is on egg shape and color, so I held back over 40 pullets to lay this year, allowing me to be highly selective when picking eggs to hatch.
I have pictures of my gold and silver Welbars at my website: http://welbars.com/doku.php?id=welbars:start

 

[dheltzel]

I have 2 eggs in the incubator, hatching in 1 week. The eggs are from a partridge Welbar rooster over a Barred Rock hen. when this cross is done with a welsummer, the chicks are sex linked. Is this also Going to be the case over the welbar? Or is the extra barring going to change things?

In my quest for a silver welbar, I am also putting a welbar cockerel over a silver welsummer hen, and a silver welsummer (well, split silver and partridge) cockerel over a welbar hen. i am clearly over engineering this, but I’m quite excited to see what we get, in many cases the ’waste’ in the process will still be recognised breeds (welsummer and welbar) which will really help when it comes to selling Off spare stock Until I get to my double barred, double silver cockerel.

if anyone is interested, I’ll take some photos of the breeding groups.

Your best bet with these pens is the gold welbar over silver welsummer hen. These chicks will be color sexable at hatch, as they are gold/silver sexlinks. All the golds are pure Welbar pullets. They may be sold or kept to enhance your gold welbar flock, as they are essentially an outcross.
Keep some of the silver chicks. They are male and will have 1 copy of the barring gene. Put those cockerels (all heterozygous for both silver and barring) over gold welbar pullets. The F2's will segregate into these phenotypes:
50% silver
50% gold
50% of pullets barred (pure welbars)
50% of pullets non-barred (welsummers)
50% of cockerels single barred
50% of cockerels double barred

If I did the match right in my head, you can expect about 12% silver, double barred cockerel. You will not be able to sex all the F2's at hatch, but you should be able to pick out the double barred silver cockerels to keep. Those silver cockerels are very valuable for all future breeding. They carry a single gene for gold, so half their daughters will be gold and half silver, allowing you to sell both color chicks from a single pen with all welbar pullets. This is what I do every year.

You can also add some cream legbar pullets to the pen with the silver welbar cocks. Their blue eggs must be hatched separately, but they are autosexing Olive Eggers, again in both gold and silver forms. In my area, these often outsell Welbar and Legbars. I have pics of the olive eggers at my website also, if you are interested.

 

[nicalandia]

It is great to hear from you again! You may not remember me, but you assisted me in figuring out the genetics of autosexing and particularly the Welbar. I did successfully create my own line of welbars about 5 years ago and have been breeding and selling them ever since. They improve every year. This year my focus is on egg shape and color, so I held back over 40 pullets to lay this year, allowing me to be highly selective when picking eggs to hatch.
I have pictures of my gold and silver Welbars at my website: http://welbars.com/doku.php?id=welbars:start

Impressive.. I congratulate you on your success and the dedication you have put to this.

 

[dheltzel]

Impressive.. I congratulate you on your success and the dedication you have put to this.

Thank you! I love the Welbars you helped me create, and they are getting more popular and common in the US. I even admin a facebook group for Welbars with over 170 members.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Your best bet with these pens is the gold welbar over silver welsummer hen. These chicks will be color sexable at hatch, as they are gold/silver sexlinks. All the golds are pure Welbar pullets. They may be sold or kept to enhance your gold welbar flock, as they are essentially an outcross.
Keep some of the silver chicks. They are male and will have 1 copy of the barring gene. Put those cockerels (all heterozygous for both silver and barring) over gold welbar pullets. The F2's will segregate into these phenotypes:
50% silver
50% gold
50% of pullets barred (pure welbars)
50% of pullets non-barred (welsummers)
50% of cockerels single barred
50% of cockerels double barred

If I did the match right in my head, you can expect about 12% silver, double barred cockerel. You will not be able to sex all the F2's at hatch, but you should be able to pick out the double barred silver cockerels to keep. Those silver cockerels are very valuable for all future breeding. They carry a single gene for gold, so half their daughters will be gold and half silver, allowing you to sell both color chicks from a single pen with all welbar pullets. This is what I do every year.

You can also add some cream legbar pullets to the pen with the silver welbar cocks. Their blue eggs must be hatched separately, but they are autosexing Olive Eggers, again in both gold and silver forms. In my area, these often outsell Welbar and Legbars. I have pics of the olive eggers at my website also, if you are interested.

Thanks for your input, I started following your welbar facebook group last year after trailing through your old thread from front to back.

I completely agree with you above, the most sensible thing to do would be to concentrate on the Welbar over Silver Welsummers, as they are sexable and there is less variety... however, as i am daft as a brush, i want to tackle this from 3 different angles (it makes it more fun). My Barred Rock lays every day, wind, rain or snow she lays an egg, her productivity is superb so i am interested to know if i start a line with her if the productivity will be carried down a few generations. Breeding group 3 - the gold duckwing cockerel is from a fantastic show line in the UK with a rich dark egg, he was an impulse buy as the guy was passing through on his way down the country and i have to get some of that bloodline into my silver welbars, so although it will throw up 4 different variations at F1 stage, i cant just leave him out of my project. My idea is, that i keep the 3 lines mostly seperate through the process so i have a line of good production layers, a line heavily influenced by the silver welsummer and a line of dark egg laying silvers. once i have those lines, i can start selectively crossing to try and get the best mix in 1 chicken.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Breeding Group 1 - Welbar over Barred Rock

We had 2 eggs in the incubator and both hatched, my Welbar eggs were far less successful (2 out of 8, looks like 4 of them stopped developing around 16-18 days).

Anyway, i promised pictures so here they are. Although not perfectly sexable, Barrred Rock Males tend to be lighter and have less / no black wash on the legs - so i think ive got a boy and a girl here.

They are in the box with 2 Welbar pullets and i will likely keep them together as a breeding group for the next stage - hoping to get a quick hatch off before next winter.