CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[ramirezframing]

Fred, Walt, Bill, et al, I was wondering whether you might also be able to address some basic questions about breeding. I realize there is no way to know the lines represented in all the pictures, but from a general standpoint, if one wanted to improve something on a picture they post, could that be included in the discussion? I have virtually everything to learn, so every little tidbit I can glean from those of you with experience spotting and improving things is really helpful.

x2 I am eager to learn but my birds are polish, lakenvelders and sumatras. So I figure it'll be awhile before we get to these breeds but I am loving learning about the others and what to look for in good birds, and will pass it on to others I talk to. I would also love to know how to fix something if need be to improve also. Great job so far

 

[MagicChicken]

If someone has a question or comment on a post it would help a LOT if they would include the photo they're questioning/commenting on along with their question. Or at least reference the post number where it can be found. If someone just references "Fred's birds" (for example) I have no clue which bird or post they're talking about, and no one has time to page back through all the posts to figure it out.

In my opinion things flow a little better if some questions - especially questions regarding terminology - are asked immediately. If one person doesn't know what a term means, chances are a lot of other lurkers won't know either. Best to ask right away and get everyone on the same page. Saves lots of backtracking later.

Not a lot of detail on the New Hampshires, but I've learned a lot from this thread so far. On to Rocks!

Sarah

 

[Pozees]

x2 I am eager to learn but my birds are polish, lakenvelders and sumatras. So I figure it'll be awhile before we get to these breeds but I am loving learning about the others and what to look for in good birds, and will pass it on to others I talk to. I would also love to know how to fix something if need be to improve also. Great job so far

Agreed - and my question was framed as general for a reason. If one wishes to increase or decrease size, darken color, improve tail set, etc., regardless of the breed I *think* there are general breeding methods that accomplish those things - and yes they may differ slightly from one breed to the next, but things like, a sire can do this that a dam can't, and vice versa, is kind of Poultry Genetics 101 I guess. I was really appreciative of the pictures posted to tell us what the markings should look like on a New Hampshire, especially presented along with what the SOP says. The simple revelation of what the bottom of the feather meant was unbelievably helpful to me. In hindsight, yes it should have been obvious, but at the time I suffered under the misconception it had no relation to the way the wing was held. That little detail helps when we read any other SOP.

I again thank all of you who have posted pictures and those who offer discussion and instruction, you cannot know how incredibly instructive it is to those of us who have never tried to breed to the SOP before.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Ok, I'm going to describe my birds and what I'm doing and I will come back and edit in (if I can do it) pictures

My name is Scott Brazinski and I raise LF Columbian Plymouth Rocks. I have had these birds, thanks to Bob Blosl, since the Fall of 2010 and 2013 will be my 3rd breeding season with this breed/variety. My original trio came via the Ohio Nationals in 2010 and are from Dick Nieuwlands flock in Canada. I also kept 1 pullet that was a Powell bird (Urbana, OH). My first season I hatched around 75-80 birds and culled down to the best 6 pullets and 2 cockerels. In my second season, I hatched approx 120 chicks. I currently have 2 cockerels and 8 hens/pullets.

I feel I have several major challenges (other than color which I am just now beginning to look at in a very small scale)

In females:
- loose feathering
- tails, some slightly pinched, some are too high. I've yet to get a tail on a female that I really like
- occasional feather stubs on the shanks and feather (result of cross to Lt Brahma some time back)
- lacking a bit in width, particularly in the hip area

In males:
- lacking front ends, hatchet chested
- tails, too low

A few areas I would consider to be attributes or positives

In females:
- well rounded front ends
- weights of 12 month old pullets around 8 lbs, slightly above standard
- decent combs (might be a tad small compared to standard as it calls for "medium in size")
- decent length of back and flat as called for
- good leg color (yellow, very little "dusky yellow", but occasional)

In males:
- weight, males are in the range of 10lbs at 12 months, slightly above standard
- really long, flat backs
- great leg color

I'm going to go find a few pictures now and will make some basic comments on each


Pullet above is from the 2012 hatching season. She has decent type, nice full, well rounded front end. Underline is decent, gravy bowl shaped as called for in Rocks. Feathering is a bit loose (although better than her mother), slight "cushion" in the tail area, a little too much fluff in the stern but getting better. Tail is slightly pinched and not moderately spread. Size is pretty good, at the time she weighed 7lbs. Comb is pretty good but I wonder if it would be considered too small. Good yellow legs, well set apart


Pullet above is from 2012 hatching season and is 1/2 sister to the one above her. Same sire, different dame. This pullet has a decent front end, decent comb, a little better tail than her sister, definitely better spread. She is slightly smaller and her wing carriage is a little less than horizontal. Leg color is good. Length of back is pretty good, but not as long as her sister above


This cockerel (at the time of this picture) is the sire to the two pullets above. His size is ok, weighed 8lbs 7oz at the time of this picture. Back is nice and long, relatively flat. Wing carriage is not so good, not held horizontally. Comb and waddles are ok, leg color is good. Tail is horrible, it is almost completely flat and never developed much lift beyond this. Would like to see the plumage on the hocks a little tighter. Ignoring color, saddle could be a bit more abundant. Unfortunately, a coyote took him after 2012 hatching season so I was not able to see him develop beyond about 14 months old.

I hope this is the kind of commentary the "professors" are looking for. Please let me know if there are any additional details I need to include. Thanks

 

[Robert Blosl]

Fred, Walt, Bill, et al, I was wondering whether you might also be able to address some basic questions about breeding. I realize there is no way to know the lines represented in all the pictures, but from a general standpoint, if one wanted to improve something on a picture they post, could that be included in the discussion? I have virtually everything to learn, so every little tidbit I can glean from those of you with experience spotting and improving things is really helpful.

Most of the nice birds have the German blood in them or are a little bit American and mostly German. Be for, the Germans eggs got to the USA the status of our New Hampshire's where very low.

If you get any of these birds from the owners of these pictures they most likely go back to Doug Ackers strain he got a few years ago. Go for it enjoy the strain and in no time you will figure out what to look for. Vigor at least is super high. bob

 

[tigercreek]

Does anyone have pictures of the differences in color between the German and American line of New Hamps?? Is there a good American lline, and isn't it more of an orange color?? .....stan

 

[Robert Blosl]

Male from North Carolina

A male of mine from six years ago notice leg color

Jim Volk Male 15 years ago



My old breeding pen 18 years ago

Pullet my old line three years ago

Nebraska Male Jermey birds he got from Frank Reese a few years ago.
Notice the nice tail on this male at this age. The proof of the pudding is will it be like
this when he is two or three years old?


Good Type to look Schilling cut 1950s

Frank Reese Line



Frank Reese Line. Notice the Rings of White on this female on the linb
This is what E B Tompson called his Ringlett line.

 

[Maven]

I've stayed quiet so as not to clutter up the thread, but since there is a question of interest I want to speak up and say I have also been following along since the start and want very much for this thread to continue!! I want to know everything y'all OTs and Masters know about chickening!!

I've already learned one frustrating but very valuable lesson from this thread. I have one rooster left, one that we were sure was a pure BO as we were told when we bought him. Now, there is absolutely NO doubt that he has Leghorn in him, and is probably hatchery stock - which we were assured he was not.

I learned this via thedragonlady's/OSUman/LacyBlues discussion of combs. After reading that, I went to let the birds out this morning and sat in the coop really LOOKING hard at him - not just his health and vigor as I usually do, but everything about him. Then, I came back and looked at the SOP for both birds and I tell ya, if that roo hasn't got Leghorn in him I'm a monkey's uncle!

Everything about him, other than his coloring, screams Leghorn in looking at the two different breeds side-by-side. It was such a surreal, AHA! moment that it made me catch my breath a moment.

Please keep this thread going, your knowledge is so vast and invaluable - I'll soak up anything you wanna throw out there!


Thanks,
Maven

 

[aoxa]

I wasn't sure if I would participate in the rocks or not.. But I think I will. We don't have the same strains of rocks you guys do in the US, and from research, Circle Pond Farms in Nova Scotia was my best bet. I purchased chicks. I wasn't planning on showing them, but did want to breed them. However, we ended up putting all four that we kept in show, and they did okay. Not show winners or anything. They were young when we entered them, and they've only grown more. One of the boys is VERY slow to mature. His tail is still coming in at 8 months old.

Anyway..
Male #1






(He was trying to impress this hen in front of him, so he's a little awkward here).

What I'd really like to improve is barring clarity and overall size. His brother is larger in the breast and head, but his body is shorter..


Male #2



Male #2 does have clearer barring than #1.

For brothers, they have totally different shapes.

I would love to get my hands on better stock in the rocks, but it's a lost breed here. Everyone who has PRs has them in bantam form, and not standard. I had a gander from Frank Reese imported to Canada. I wish I would have done it for a few good Rocks as well, but the import fees are far too expensive for a species that does not sell for much around here.

Maybe one day.

Here are the two females I have.

#1 I think she's too small.


#2

My girls seem to have feathering that is too tight. How else do I say that? The barring is not as neat as I'd like to see it.

Now if you want pictures of what a rock SHOULDN'T look like, I'm your gal. I have this pair of production type, and the barring and type is not good at all. Thank god they are some of the best layers I have.


My last two boys look a bit prettier now, don't they?

That's yoghurt on her comb.

I do believe there must be leghorn in the blood with the above two.

 

[fowlman01]

When you look at a barred feather, it should be straight lines and have black at the tip of the feather. When the barring does not look clear you will find that the bars are not straight .....they are "V" shaped.

Walt