CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[Fred's Hens]

We have focused on the Americans. We have a few remaining to discuss. It will be absolutely essential to keep repeating the goal of the thread. Participation and discussion of SOP breeding challenges. This is not an online poultry show. Exhibitions that are posted for class room exhibition purposes. Impetus is generated when discussion and questions focus on the standard for the breed at hand and the challenges presented to those dedicated to breeding them.

It is time to move on to another American. Following them, we can perhaps take a look at the Continental, Mediterranean, Asiatic, the English, etc. Next up,

The Dominique​

 

[Gallusfarm]

Females: All of these are my birds.

Typical hatchery bird. looks like a Barred Rock with a rose comb. Note type is everything with Dominiques. One should be able to pick a Dominique out of a flock based on type alone. This bird is overweight, 6.5 lbs, Standard calls for 5 lbs for hens. The pattern leaves a lot to be desired. Comb is OK, as we want the spike to point upward.


and another hatchery bird. Overweight, pinched tail:




Compare to Schilling's illustration: This is not the illustration in the current SOP, but among Dominique fanciers, it is often the preferred illustration. Notice her pattern almost has a lacing effect. Ther is a breeder in PA who has birds that look like her, I hope he chimes in.




A nicely spread tail is critical for the look above. The bird below has a nice tail. Finding a female that looks like the standard - they are few and far between. The pattern of the bird below it is more horizontal barred than cuckoo. She does have a clean beak, often seeing black beaks, with is undesirable. Dominiques should be medium featherd. Often see tendency to be too fluffy especially around the leg and base of the tail, as this one has a little. This bird could be sleeker. She is in the ball park for weight, she is 5.5 lbs.


from behind this bird would look like this:




as opposed to undesirable below - she needs width throughout, her tail is nice in that is is longer. (often seeing Dominiuqe with short tails) But it is pinched terribly. Her comb is nice and she exhibits nice yellow shanks.


looks like this from behind:



below a decent young female. Keeping them on grass helps with the shank and beak coloring. This bird is lacking in that department. I love the look of the birght yellow orange shanks hopefully will see some in these posts.



I like this hen below , except her tail is above 45 deg. that is called for in the standard. Again, we are seeing more of a barred pattern. Washed out legs due to laying. Her chest is nice, her back could be a tad longer, and it should slope downward from the neck. Her tail otherwise is right on, as far as length and width.


This bird below is good in that she has nice tight feathering. she appears sleeker, not fluffy or heavy weight. There is potential.



same bird above below her tail could be better spread.



to me the bird below has a long beak, crow head? To me she is average.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

The old homesteaders called these domineckers. Sort of like dominoes. Anything with a barred pattern were referred to as a dominecker. Gallusfarm is correct, TYPE is everything! No matter the breed, type makes the breed. Many of the hatcheries crossed a Dominique with their Barred Plymouth Rocks and anything with a rose comb was sold as a Dominique.

Crossroads had some very nice quality Dominiques. Looking forward to seeing the photos of some nice birds and reading the experts on the breed's thoughts on each.

It should also be noted to all newbies, posting photos of any Schilling illustration is not fair! Schilling was a judge and a master artist. His illustrations were photos he would retouch and perfect. No bird has ever looked like his illustrations and may never will. But it is a goal to work towards. No offence to any judge, but we may never have the likes of Schilling and his equals again. They set a bar that few can achieve.

If you have hatchery Dominiques (or any breed) try to at least slowly replace them with the real thing.

Compare to Schilling's illustration: This is not the illustration in the current SOP, but among Dominique fanciers, it is often the preferred illustration. Notice her pattern almost has a lacing effect. Ther is a breeder in PA who has birds that look like her, I hope he chimes in.

 

[Chris09]

HallFamilyFarm,

Some of the old homesteaders also referred to them as Dominikaner (German) and means Dominican (Black and White).

The term Dominikaner and Domineckers was used a lot because the term "Dominique" was used at the time (before APA) to describe a group of patters that could be found on a number of breeds including American, Spanish, and Irish Gamefowl breeds, Leghorns, and the American Dominique (later to be changed to just Dominique in the American Standard of Perfection in the late 1800's to early 1900's)


Chris

 

[Chris09]

Here is one of my Dominique hens - -

Chris

 

[DraigAthar]

Someone just told me about this thread today, so I spent a couple of hours reading every post. It's a wonderful thread, a wonderful idea. The info has been so useful, thank you to everyone who is participating. The best part is that the breed you're on now is my breed! Haha! I will have to get some good photos together and critique my own birds, I know I have a long way to go as I have only been working with the Dominiques in earnest now for about a year. I'll post something soon and try my best to participate.

 

[Gallusfarm]

Love the hen Chris. A beauty.


*** reminder *** the SOP is not just a reference for beauty. It also outlines utility, and the purpose of the fowl. That is why Economic Qualities is listed in the SOP first.


For Dominiques, they are dual purpose which means they should provide eggs and have substancial flesh for meat.


Although not written in the SOP many Dominique fanciers also feel that good foraging ability, and brooding skills (among others) are also what makes the breed complete.

Sometimes it's beneficial to get some sub standard birds to really notice the difference and appreciate the goods ones when you find them.

I like to post the good and the bad because there are so many things that can be problematic with this breed. I've seen a lot of them.





above and below: "brassiness" in coloring. Type could be worse.




close up this is a young bird. If there is coloring like this at this age, I cull.

Below major problems with color as well as flat back! But he was well fleshed. You cannot eat color but he did fulfill his economic qualities in the roasting pan.



Combs: It's easy to get cought up on combs, I used to when I started, but they are often a crap shoot when breeding.

Just some things to look out for.

No spike on comb. these are culled.



Below is a double spike on his comb. He passed this to his offspring. Should have culled.




comb wants to follow the head, sickles are short, but growing in. This male is way over the 7lbs called for in the standard. Legs are also close set. If the bird was otherwise wonderful, I would not cull because of this comb.




Here's another bird with close set legs and unappealing tail spread:



Here is the SAME bird as above, two shots later. It really is hard to judge these birds by just photos. This bird was correct as far as weight, but he was skin and bones!!! To me I find it difficult to get the 7 lbs. with good flesh. Not just a bag of bones with feathers. He appears to have a nice full tail and sweeping sickles in the photo below.





Here are some that are better: I think these birds are really hard to breed, and judge, because there is so much possible variation.

This one has a better head. Eye color good, good decent shank color, pattern could be better and tail could have been better spread



This one has a nice curved back, which is correct, although is is rather long. So often we see flat backs which we must cull for. I did like how thick his sickles were. I like this color as well, it is clear and more along the lines of blue than yellow.



below: Size wise this brid was on the money. Not to thick yet felt of good flesh. Nice curving sickle. I prefer the chest up and this one had a nice upright chest.



the same bird again below. His legs seem rather close set.




below, the same male as the 2 photos above, he has filled out a bit. A note about Dominique males: some say that they do not even look at their males unitl they are at least 9 months old. This is so true. Just can't determine type unitl they are older.



Getting better as far as the cuckoo pattern. His comb is a bit hollow in the center. Is not covered with points, per the standard, but acceptable. A little bit smudgy pattern on the wing. I see this a lot.



Not a bad bird, except he has a white sickle which is also rather common. Not a deal breaker for breeding, especailly pullets.

 

[upthecreek]

What blood was put into the original New Hampsire to get this Caramel Red look ? or is this a completely different chicken ? Do judges judge the Caramel German same as the original New Hampshire or put the German Caramel in another breed/class/variety ?

Here are some NH cockerels (all German line). They were all 8-9 months old at time of photo. No. 57: No. 58: No. 59: No. 66:

 

[fowlman01]

What blood was put into the original New Hampsire to get this Caramel Red look ? or is this a completely different chicken ? Do judges judge the Caramel German same as the original New Hampshire or put the German Caramel in another breed/class/variety ?

You can't tell what these New Hamps color really is unless you take one outside in the sun and look at it in sunlight. Digital pics don't really tell what shades they are.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

Beside the off color, this bird has a very flat lower chest. From the shoulder to the thigh is a straight line instead of a curved line. Compared to the others.

Walt