CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[Arielle]

Quote: Karen you know me, I look at every view point, so no offense

. . . . here goes . . . .

In horses in Holland which are regarded as the work of the best horse breeders in the world, they used scientific methods and experimentation to arrive at detailed methods of evaluating horses for breeding. Some 26 conformational points are graded by professional judges. Each are separarely scored, inferring that each is genetically separate and one doesn't fully effect another point of conformation, (or predict another point of conformation.) With careful analysis, they annually select a few high quality stallions(30-40) to influence the entire horse population ( the benefits of cooperative breeding) and scoring of the offspring is done to verify the genetics of each sire. A sire is kept only if the quality of the offspring is suffiecient and his offspring must prove their value over the next 11 years.

Regarding the head, this was treated as a separate conformational point. ANd one of the last to be tackled. An ugly head did not denote performance; and performance was evaluated regardless of head; but it became a point of influencing sales. A pretty head sells. THey did select stallions with lovely heads to improve sales ( compete with Germany for sales).

So I can only bring this up as a point of conversation because perhaps poultry genetics is much different.

 

[fowlman01]

Other animals and chickens are quite different. Judge Atkins is correct. Crow heads denote lack of vigor as an example. I wouldn't say it is the most important part of a chicken, but it is very important.

Large fowl hatched late here tend to be smaller than birds hatched earlier. I am in CA (Sonoma County-norcal).

Walt

 

[aveca]

Is this true only in the Midwest? or everywhere? Can anyone say why? Is it because the summer is so hot? If it is because winter comes on so fast after that point, would that be true in a place like where I live where the winter doesn't even get cold until mid January? And that would mean below 50 degrees? Just curious, because if that's the case, I will have to make sure I hatch earlier in the year

there was an interesting program on nature pbs a while ago on why a lot of animals , and some birds as they move to more southerly areas beging to loose size..the florida red wolf is quite small compared to arctic tundra wolf or siberian wolf..polar bear down through grizzley and then to black bear..they went back into eocene epoch ..it was interesting..but some of the largest bird species like ostrich live in desert...it might be survival straragy..they adapt to predators through gaining or loosing size ..need less energy spent surviving warmer climate..it depends on stressors like excessive heat ect...

 

[Arielle]

Funny you should mention this. We have been having epock heat waves here in recent years, many heat waves and several days over 100. This is very hot for here. THen the winters move in with the rainy season and the below 32 nights, not just risking frost bite but a real comb killer.

I can see the smaller birds coping with the heat better than the very large heavy bodied, but the bantams having a harder time in the winter months without extra management.

DH with his wildlife studies brings interesting points to domestic animal discussions. HE has studied eagles, but enjoys tossing corn to the chickens.

 

[thedragonlady]

Funny you should mention this. We have been having epock heat waves here in recent years, many heat waves and several days over 100. This is very hot for here. THen the winters move in with the rainy season and the below 32 nights, not just risking frost bite but a real comb killer.

I can see the smaller birds coping with the heat better than the very large heavy bodied, but the bantams having a harder time in the winter months without extra management.

DH with his wildlife studies brings interesting points to domestic animal discussions. HE has studied eagles, but enjoys tossing corn to the chickens.

There is a reason that the South is known as Bantam Country.Our normally mild winters, and hot summers favor the smaller birds.It is very difficult to raise good small bantams in say, Minnesota, unless you have heated coops. Just look at the large fowl they produce there though. They are huge.The young birds stuff themselves to stay warm, and grow like crazy.

Just as an experiment, I am breaking one of my rules, and hatching a few test breedings now.The chicks probably won't need heat past 2 weeks of age , except at night. They will probably have fans during the day, even in the new shady run we're building. So far most chicks are pipping almost a day early. The eggs are starting to incubate from the time they are laid in this heat.

I'll be interested to see if I end up with 8 lb. hens, instead of 10 pounders. This one's for you Walt !

 

[neopolitancrazy]

My Dorkings have always been very slow to fill out. Here's another quote from Phil Bartz on Dorking growth:

"you find that if you select faster maturing birds you will lose size and usually cull birds that are actually better in many ways but, they just hadn't come into their season yet. DOrkings around my place take at least a year to reach adulthood and continue to grow well into the second year and pushing three sometimes. Body wise that is. Combs usually don't get bigger or the hens longer legged. Just weight and finish always will need the time to complete what nature intended in them. Fast gets you growthy and weaker skeletal structure because usually the feed regimen doesn't match the needs of the birds growth/feed ratio of vitamins, minerals and water. Birds hatched after March in the midwest will never be as big as those hatched from dec-mar. Anything hatched after june1 your just wasting money and time."

Do you know when he wrote this? Or where he lived when he wrote this? I don't disagree with his opinion, but do wonder how much of what he saw was strain-based rather than breed-based.
Angela

 

[capayvalleychick]

Do you know when he wrote this? Or where he lived when he wrote this? I don't disagree with his opinion, but do wonder how much of what he saw was strain-based rather than breed-based.
Angela

He wrote that in 2010. AFAIK, he lived in Illinois during the time he was breeding Dorkings - from the early 80's to about 2006. He was president of the old Dorking Club during part of that time.

 

[3riverschick]

I can't wait to read Walt's opine on this breed.

Karen
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[Arielle]

Quote: LOve experiements!! If the stock grows smaller, it still has the same genetic material to produce a larger bird if hatched in an earlier month.

I wonder what the factors are that contribute to this . . . as in amy thing management wise that can be altered when a larger bird is needed for say show purposes.

 

[Arielle]

I can't wait to read Walt's opine on this breed.

Karen
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Quote: I thought the same thing. Maybe Walt can share some pics of his stock as well. No pressure.