CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[Eissens]

In the Netherlands we also discuss the chest colour of our Welsumers at our AGM.
We prefer the left bird.

 

[Eissens]

It was Annie Banning-Vogelpoel of Netherlands.

Honestly, all this chit chat of the history, needs to go over to the BYC Welsummer thread so we don't bog this classroom with idle chats LOL!

She was an honorary member of the Dutch Welsumerclub.
She deceased in 2008.

Her book about keeping poultry has made a run to the Welsumers after it was published.
You can understand why when you look at the cover.

 

[3riverschick]

The genome of the Welsumer is: e+/e+ s+/s+ Ar+/Ar+ Mh/Mh
The genetic name: Mahogany Gold Bankiva partridge.
Do you include the Ar+/Ar+ because it is believed to be an integral part of the salmon breast?
Or because Ar+/Ar+ acts in addition to a salmon breast which is caused by the s+/s+ on the e+ locus?
Thanks,
Karen
Quote: Good Day Eissens,
Autosomal red confirmed/connected to the salmon breast of Bankivapartridge hens and golden hens in the foreground/ground colour. Is this accepted because of the work of Brian Reeder? I see in Van Dort and Hancox's book, "The Genetics of Chicken Colours- The Basics", Page 217, that Wild Brown , e+/e+ s+/s+(-)...There is no salmon breast on the female? It is hard to see in the picture if salmon is in the breast.
The reason I am asking all these questions.....In Leghorns, the color and quality of the female breast can be affected by incorrect selection regarding the hackle striping in the male. I was wondering if this is possible in Wellies? Does incorrect selection of hackle striping in the male cause the shafting in the female breast?
Regards,
Karen

 

[EweSheep]

She was an honorary member of the Dutch Welsumerclub.
She deceased in 2008.

Her book about keeping poultry has made a run to the Welsumers after it was published.
You can understand why when you look at the cover.

WOW! She seems to be a delightful woman after reading her letters, she seems to be very knowledgeable! Glad she wrote a book before she passed on.

 

[faykokoWV]

before this session ends, I would like to ask - other than selective breeding - what is the best way to eliminate the white fluff at the base of the tail?

 

[maryhysong]

before this session ends, I would like to ask - other than selective breeding - what is the best way to eliminate the white fluff at the base of the tail?

me too; if it's in the male you are using do all the chicks get it or is there a possibility that some won't Or are there varying degrees of it? so you can actually have a choice?

Same with the yellow leg; since it's sex linked and only the male carries it.... exactly how does that work?

 

[Eissens]

The genome of the Welsumer is: e+/e+ s+/s+ Ar+/Ar+ Mh/Mh
The genetic name: Mahogany Gold Bankiva partridge.
Do you include the Ar+/Ar+ because it is believed to be an integral part of the salmon breast?
Or because Ar+/Ar+ acts in addition to a salmon breast which is caused by the s+/s+ on the e+ locus?
Thanks,
Karen
Good Day Eissens,
Autosomal red confirmed/connected to the salmon breast of Bankivapartridge hens and golden hens in the foreground/ground colour. Is this accepted because of the work of Brian Reeder? I see in Van Dort and Hancox's book, "The Genetics of Chicken Colours- The Basics", Page 217, that Wild Brown , e+/e+ s+/s+(-)...There is no salmon breast on the female? It is hard to see in the picture if salmon is in the breast.
The reason I am asking all these questions.....In Leghorns, the color and quality of the female breast can be affected by incorrect selection regarding the hackle striping in the male. I was wondering if this is possible in Wellies? Does incorrect selection of hackle striping in the male cause the shafting in the female breast?
Regards,
Karen

Hello Karen,

I do not know who invented the code Ar +, but it is proven that a not sex-linked (autosomal) red factor exists.
Wild Brown, is that the colour of the breed Altstreiers? The females of this breed do have a dark salmom breast.
Autosomal red exists in different shades, it's all about selection.
I don't think there is a connection between the hackle striping of the male and the breast colour of the female.
And now I am talking as one of the Dutch Welsumer breeders: we don't like striping in the under feathers of the hackle (and saddle), but the our Standard (and yours too) says it is allowed.
When you make use of a cockerel with some black striping in the under feathers of the hackle, you get hens with intensive black striping in her hackle.
And that is not correct. Her hackle has to be: the lower feathers with some black striping and golden shaft, the black striping interrupted by the ground colour (literally translation of the dutch Standard)
In my opinion there is a connection between the breast of the male and the breast of the female, brown shafting in the breast of the cockerel can give light shafting in the breast of the hen.
The same for wide wing feathers of the cockerel will give wide wing feathers in the hens. A broad/wide tail of the male will give a broad/wide tail in the hens.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: Thank you for the explanation! I had not read this about the width of feather. This is a big help with my Sussex breeding!
Thanks,
Karen

 

[Piet]

before this session ends, I would like to ask - other than selective breeding - what is the best way to eliminate the white fluff at the base of the tail?

The ground color should be a grey, dark grey. The back is wide with lots of saddle feathers well developed. As the tail is fairly narrow compared to lets say a Barnevelder, it can stick out more like a sharkfin and so you want a lot of saddle feathers and smooth short rounded transition from back to tail. Really you cannot avoid selective breeding, need to breed many and grow them, select etc.

One thing about the shafting on the hens breast..I see better breast as far as less shafting on hens that have almost no shafting overall. Its the whole "blanket" that comes to play I think and if the SOP wants shafting on the back, you will find it on the breast also. The Dutch standard breeds away from this (main difference from both SOP's, besides tail angle), but its not easy and always a battle to keep that clean for them too as you now know. Dutch bantams, light brown for example..hens tend to have shafting and it really takes a lot of selecting. Back to the Welsummer hen, I think it will be darn hard to have no shafting showing on the breast if you do want it elsewhere..
Those are the things that when it becomes genetically "impossible" to do so, or one needs to raise 200 birds to get one good one, is when a bell should ring at the standard committee.

Walt, you mentioned (and I fully agree!) that the SOP would be far more detailed if you had it your way. In Holland (and most all of Europe) we have specialty breed clubs and those have many meetings, specialty shows and barnvisits/get togethers and also correspond closely with the standard committee. They will have documents and also a handy little booklet that describes the particular breed more defined. I have both books for Welsummers and Barnevelders (bibles!) and find a ton more info than one could find from the SOP alone. It holds a far more detailed description and also pictures comparing colors, type, headgear etc. Do you have any such books on lets say the Wyandottes? I find these tools help a whole lot also.

Piet

 

[Eissens]

Marcel, those are terrific looking birds! Not only leg color but especially Type. I can't get on the CSU thread right now so I don't know if you've posted those over there or not but, if not, I sure hope you do. It would be good for people to see what real Wellies should look like and give the real breeders a picture to refer back to.

Someone wrote the females of the Dutch and German birds have terrible leg color in both countries. Mostly the females which is the way it usually is in yellow legged breeds.

The following pictures are exhibition birds from the Netherlands and Germany. Take a good look at their leg colour.