d'anver lovers,discuss the breed and post some pics!

[Backwoods Bntms]

good looking pics, JJ
I really like that crele ones too, that one finally got the wing markings on it, something I havent hatched out of mine that I've kept yet, glad to see it came out finally. Think I know why now. If I remember yours came from my project male back to the bb reds didnt it? Back when I was getting pyles for you?

If so, that will help, I mainly had been breeding project to project and not back to bb. I knew better, just had a lot of bb projects and not many birds to use. I know how to get them finished now though if that's the case.

The columbian looks great too, about the cleanest one yet looks like, congrats on him too.

and the ginger, or buff

I think is an F1 buff columbian. They are a bit darker red than they are supposed to be, mainly due to being half bb red I think. If so, he'll lighten up in the next generation.

You were getting me BB reds and you used a crele cockerel and said they would be 50/50.

That red cockerel is the second one I have gotten from bb red roo and these two real reddish looking quail hens I picked up at crossroads last year. Crossed them with a quail roo and the chicks have an eye stripe and a reddish look to them, Don't have any grown out yet but so far their breast is coming in that good golden tan color. They will probably end up too dark, but the quails I find around here are too washed out in the breast to suit me. Going to try and golden them up a bit next year. Oh and the red cockerel I think will be going back to bb reds just to see what happens.

 

[4hchickmama]

The Chicken Calculator is a good tool to learn off of.

http://kippenjungle.nl/Overzicht.htm#kipcalculator

Just click the color for the male and the female, then click calculate crossing and it shows you exactly what will come from it. you can then cross a chick to a parent, chick to chick , ect and continue into 2cd , 3rd 4th generations, however far you want to go.

Pattern genes need to be breed to the same pattern obviously for the chicks to be the same.

Solid colors work a little different.
It can all get confussing in one post but I'll try to help as much as I can

here goes, silkies folks as well as any other breeder will often keep blue black and splash together, reason being, they breed true, you just get different ratios depending on the parents

They are all black based birds, the blues just have a gene that turned the black blue. One copy is all it takes, meaning only 1 parent has to be blue, 2 copies of blue is what makes the splash birds.

This all works the same with dun too, it just makes the brown ( not chocolate, that's different, it breeds more like lavender)

on the blues ( or duns) here's the breeding ratios

black to black = 100% black
black to blue = 50% each
black to splash = 100%
blue to blue = 50% blue 25% black 25% splash
blue to splash = 50 % each

same on dun, just sub dun for blue and khaki for splash.

This ratio will work on patterned birds with blue or dun in them too. Just remember blue and dun have just 1 copy, and splash and khaki have 2 copies of the gene. Each parent can only pass on 1 copy of any gene to the chicks, so it's just basic math if you look at it that way.

Now lavender and chocolate are recessive, chocolate recessive sex linked. In short, these are black based birds too, but they are masked with the recessive lavender or chocolate genes.

Any time you cross one of these to another color, you will get all blacks. These blacks will carry the "split" gene for the color though.
Split means they have it in them as 1 copy, but by being recessive it takes 2 copies for it to be visable. So you have to 1. either cross the chicks back to each other, or 2 cross the chicks back to a lav or cho bird to get new ones.

again works the same in patterns too.

White, you have 2 basic kinds, recessive white and dominate white. Dominate white will breed about like the blues above on a first cross, and replaces all black feathers with white, and dilutes red to an orange color, baically red pyles are bb reds, goldnecks are mille fluers, buff laced is gold laced, all just having dominate white in them.
Recessive white is a masking color. It really isnt the true color of the bird in a genetic sence. What it does is covers up all color. You will not have a patterned recesive white. Most are over black bases, but they can be over anything.

This is why silkie people often keep blacks and whites together, they are the same color, ones just covered by recessive white. So they can get more blacks off the whites, these blacks will now carry 1 copy of rec white and will later make then more whites.

On patterns, Lord there's a million of them, would be hard to cover them all.

Most all have to be bred to the smae to get the smae though, not many are dominate. One that comes to mind is Birchen, when bred to birchen, duckwing, ginger, or any of the basic wild patterns, they will always be birchens. Now these will be split to whatever pattern you bred it to and will later make more of that pattern too, but on the first cross, birchen is dominate .

certain combos will outright make new patterns too, like mille fleur to bb red, = buff columbian right on the spot.

most arent that easy though and take 2-6 years to get the new color finished.

Barring or cuckoo is somewhat dominate too, as long as the male you use is barred, all off spring will be barred, assumeing he is double factored.
There's an easy way to tell this. First double factored means both his parents were barred. hens will only carry 1 copy by the way
but if a male came from barred parents, he will be pale in color and have no solid feathers on him. If he is single factored, he will be dark colored and have a few solid colored feathers in him.

Now that that's said, a double fatcored male will make all barred chicks no matter what you breed him to. That crele JJ posted about is from one of my barred projects. It is nothing more than cuckoo to bb red.
as long as you are using a solid barred to a pettern, the end result is just a barred version of that pattern. You can do it with anything, just takes a couple years to finish the color part out.

anywa, it can go on and on. Try the calculator out, it will help if you want to start trying some crosses. Or feel free to ask if you have any specific questions about it all.

That is a perfect explanation. Thanks so much!

 

[lcw1995]

i have a mille fleur male and a porcelain female now when she starts laying when i hatch their eggs are they going to be a mixed color of mille fleur split to porcelain or porcelain split to mille fleur im thinking out of the colors i have now -mf porcelain and gold birchen- porcelain is my favorite so my question actually is will any of them hatch out porcelain in color i see cynthia has aubrey in with mille fleur pullets and all hers are mille fleur so is that what im going to be getting thanks for any help cole

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

You were getting me BB reds and you used a crele cockerel and said they would be 50/50.

That red cockerel is the second one I have gotten from bb red roo and these two real reddish looking quail hens I picked up at crossroads last year. Crossed them with a quail roo and the chicks have an eye stripe and a reddish look to them, Don't have any grown out yet but so far their breast is coming in that good golden tan color. They will probably end up too dark, but the quails I find around here are too washed out in the breast to suit me. Going to try and golden them up a bit next year. Oh and the red cockerel I think will be going back to bb reds just to see what happens.

Good, I figured that had to of been the set I sent you, so now I know.

any yep if that's the combo you used on the red male, he's a columbian, quails on a columbian base if I'm not mistaken. Back to bb's he'll make you more bb's I'm thinking

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

i have a mille fleur male and a porcelain female now when she starts laying when i hatch their eggs are they going to be a mixed color of mille fleur split to porcelain or porcelain split to mille fleur im thinking out of the colors i have now -mf porcelain and gold birchen- porcelain is my favorite so my question actually is will any of them hatch out porcelain in color i see cynthia has aubrey in with mille fleur pullets and all hers are mille fleur so is that what im going to be getting thanks for any help cole

Cole,

if you breed the mille to the porcelain, you will get milles split to lavender.

all a porcelain is, is a mille fleur that has lavender in it.
So they are infact the same pattern bird, so breeding them together is easy and doesnt result in mixed up colors.

Now to get more porcelains. Take these new chicks from next year and 1) breed them to each other, or 2) breed them back to the porcelain. Being your porcelain is a hen. I'd put the typiest male you hatch next year back to her and breed the other chicks to each other. Basically have you 2 pens going for porcelain that way, plus you'll be getting more milles too, so you can finish off 2 colors with the one breeding.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

That is a perfect explanation. Thanks so much!

glad that helped. If you have any specific this to that type questions, feel free to ask, we'll try to help

 

[lcw1995]

so aubrey all i have to do is breed the mille split to porcelain back to the porcelain pullet that they hatched from and then id have porcelains is that correct lol just makin sure
ill be ordering some more eggs from you as well probbaly in the spring
thanks aubrey
cole

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

so aubrey all i have to do is breed the mille split to porcelain back to the porcelain pullet that they hatched from and then id have porcelains is that correct lol just makin sure
ill be ordering some more eggs from you as well probbaly in the spring
thanks aubrey
cole

either way, the milles split to lavender to a porcelain
or the chicks back to each other.
Either way, you will get porcelains and more milles too. You will get more porcelains back off the porcelain mom though as you will have 3 copies of lavender in the mix that way, so that will just give you better odds at getting chicks with 2 copies of lavender.

Just as a techincal note, they are split to lavender, not porcelain. Like I said eariler, porcelain is just a name given to a lavender mille.

 

[NanaKat]

So reading the color discussion.
My Porcelain (MF split to Lavendar) trio will produce Mille Fleur and porcelain? 50/50 or 25/75?

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

cant remember exactly what you had sex wise,
but if you have a porcelain of one sex and the milles are split lavender and the oposite sex, or vice versa

then yes you should get ruffly 50/50 of both, all the milles again will be split lavender, because the porcelain will be giving 1 dose of it to all of them.

The split lavenders will average 1 dose to about half the chicks, those will be porcelains, because the porcelain parent always gives 1 copy.

the other half wont get a dose from the splits, so those will be milles, but split due to the porcelain parent's single copy .