Drained a Hen's Abdomen.. Rest in Peace, Olivia 11-5-10

[speckledhen]

not age ago

She died in the fall of 2010.

 

[jgoldy2]

Oh I didn't realize how long ago, sorry to hear that

 

[Sunnydays]

Olivia has been dying of internal laying/egg peritonitis for awhile now. Her abdomen is humongous and she is having trouble breathing. Since she seemed like she was ready to go today, decided to try (for the second time) to drain her. Figured if she choked, then she was going anyway. We may try to euthanize her soon since there is really no hope, but finally, found a good spot for the needle and removed 247 cc of fluid from her, only about half of what is probably in there, poor thing. You can't tell from the pic, but the fluid is very yellowish, but tinged with blood.


Here is the jar with what came out of poor little Livvie:

Here is Olivia for those of you who don't know her. She isn't a large girl at all. She is in the foreground, with Ivy, who is ailing with the same thing, in the back.

Poor thing ;-( ....and pretty girls ;-) ...we love our girls!! The one in front looks like my Mandevilla an Australorp hen who has water belly, my first experience with this and wanting to now if antibiotic really help or harm??? Is one kin work better then the other to use for Ascites belly? How much and how long to use if it helps?? Ta

 

[speckledhen]

What you're calling "water belly" is only a symptom of something larger. You may have an internal layer, which will never be fixed with antibiotics. I drained a hen not long ago who had a two year cycle of bloating and going into "remission", though she never laid eggs. Upon necropsy, she had two baseball sized tumors in her liver, reproductive tumors, no sign of internal laying, per se. That type thing, antibiotics will do nothing for. Penicillin won't fix an ecoli infection and you really don't know what is inside a hen with a bloated abdomen. Symptoms of many things are too similar to call. It's only a shot in the dark, pardon the pun.

 

[Shining Hill]

Thanks so much. Hopefully, won't happen too many more times now that most of the hatchery girls have passed on.

If you don't get hatchery hens? Where do you source your hens, chicks or hatching eggs from if you don't mind me asking??

 

[speckledhen]

If you don't get hatchery hens? Where do you source your hens, chicks or hatching eggs from if you don't mind me asking??

Welcome to BYC!

About a year after I got the first hatchery stock, I got my first shipment of eggs from a breeder of quality stock. And I hatched eggs from a friend's hatchery flock at the same time. Then a couple years later, more shipped eggs from good quality true Ameraucanas. So, I hatched from my birds here for years, shipped eggs a few times from reputable breeders (not propagators of hatchery birds, but actual breeders), raised those up and hatched from them. Right now, I am hatching eggs from two different breeders of quality stock for the first time in 5 years. All the rest of the time, my birds come from my own.

I've had 50/50 luck with daughters of hatchery hens. Some died earlier than they should have, but I currently have two Barred Rock hens who are 9 years old (one has severe arthritis so she cannot walk but still lays eggs) that hatched from McMurray Hatchery parents. Neither has had egg issues, though one has not laid in about 3 years.

So, that is how I do it. I got stock with better genetics, hatched from those birds and on occasion when I need an infusion of new blood, I get eggs from very reputable breeders.

I never, ever buy started birds/chicks from anyone, even folks I believe to have healthy flocks.

 

[FlyingNunFarm]

I've been trying to deal with a RIR who seems to have EYP. I have a few questions I'm hoping someone who's dealt with this can answer.

I drained 1/3 cup from her belly. It doesn't seem to have gone down in size. Is that normal?
I would think it would deflate when I drain it.
How fast will it refill? Does that just depend on the hen?

I can fill in more info about my girl but these are my two concerns right now. I don't want her to suffer so I'm doing my best to make an informed decision on what is basically her end of life care.

 

[speckledhen]

I've been trying to deal with a RIR who seems to have EYP. I have a few questions I'm hoping someone who's dealt with this can answer.

I drained 1/3 cup from her belly. It doesn't seem to have gone down in size. Is that normal?
I would think it would deflate when I drain it.
How fast will it refill? Does that just depend on the hen?

I can fill in more info about my girl but these are my two concerns right now. I don't want her to suffer so I'm doing my best to make an informed decision on what is basically her end of life care.

That would depend on how much is in there. It's hard to tell, really, at first, if it's gone down. I removed over a cup from a hen and it was barely noticeable until later. It WILL refill because this is chronic. It will not get better permanently.

Sometimes, it will go down on its own, but come back later. I no longer drain hens, period, not unless I see they have a lot of fight in them and the belly is making her legs stay wide apart and the belly is almost dragging. Draining is ONLY to make them more comfortable and take stress off the other organs, but it will not cure this.

I assume this is a hatchery RIR? That is one of the usual ones we see with the issue, a heavy laying breed.

 

[FlyingNunFarm]

That would depend on how much is in there. It's hard to tell, really, at first, if it's gone down. I removed over a cup from a hen and it was barely noticeable until later. It WILL refill because this is chronic. It will not get better permanently.

Sometimes, it will go down on its own, but come back later. I no longer drain hens, period, not unless I see they have a lot of fight in them and the belly is making her legs stay wide apart and the belly is almost dragging. Draining is ONLY to make them more comfortable and take stress off the other organs, but it will not cure this.

I assume this is a hatchery RIR? That is one of the usual ones we see with the issue, a heavy laying breed.

She was a girl someone else couldn't keep. I have no idea on her origin or age. When I drained her belly I used a butterfly needle with tubing. That way I could leave the needle in and just hook up a syringe to pull fluid. I did it till I had a hard time pulling back the plunger. I guess I was expecting a dramatic change instantly. Or should I say hoping. Her belly is swollen but not massive. Maybe a grapefruit size. I've read cantaloupe size but with draining the hen lived a while longer. I know she won't be cured but if she could live comfortably only dealing with a draining every few months... She hasn't gone to roost recently but gets around ok. Eating and drinking. I'm new to chickens and this will be my first loss. Not a decision I wanted to have to make.

Thank you for responding and so quickly. Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[speckledhen]

She was a girl someone else couldn't keep. I have no idea on her origin or age. When I drained her belly I used a butterfly needle with tubing. That way I could leave the needle in and just hook up a syringe to pull fluid. I did it till I had a hard time pulling back the plunger. I guess I was expecting a dramatic change instantly. Or should I say hoping. Her belly is swollen but not massive. Maybe a grapefruit size. I've read cantaloupe size but with draining the hen lived a while longer. I know she won't be cured but if she could live comfortably only dealing with a draining every few months... She hasn't gone to roost recently but gets around ok. Eating and drinking. I'm new to chickens and this will be my first loss. Not a decision I wanted to have to make.

Thank you for responding and so quickly. Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

I do not fault you for trying. And this being your first time to deal with it (hopefully, the last, but probably not), it will teach you a lot. Lord knows, I did this so many times with sweet Olivia. She was a huge learning experience, both she and Ivy. What I did learn was that though you see the fluid in the abdomen, you don't see as it advances that fluid collects in other places like heart and lungs as well. It's a complete organ failure, really.

One thing that may help, though it won't cure it, is to give one round of penicillin injections. It seems to sometimes help the fluid dissipate to a degree, at least before the condition is far advanced. For this, do 3/4-1 cc injected in the breast muscle, alternating sides, for up to 4 days. I usually do one round and that is it.

With last hen, it didn't help her much. I prepared for her to die (splash Rock from a breeder). She stayed bloated for months. Then one day, I picked her up to check and no fluid, but she'd lost a LOT of weight and was molting. I thought it was the end for her. Nope, she started to gain her weight back and actually started laying again! That is VERY rare. But it was short-lived. I just pulled a crushed shell from her the other day-she prolapsed trying to push it out. And she's bloating again. I won't give her penicillin. She is 5 years old.

Best of luck to you. Let us know how it turns out for your hen.