Drained a Hen's Abdomen.. Rest in Peace, Olivia 11-5-10

[speckledhen]

Olivia has been dying of internal laying/egg peritonitis for awhile now. Her abdomen is humongous and she is having trouble breathing. Since she seemed like she was ready to go today, decided to try (for the second time) to drain her. Figured if she choked, then she was going anyway. We may try to euthanize her soon since there is really no hope, but finally, found a good spot for the needle and removed 247 cc of fluid from her, only about half of what is probably in there, poor thing. You can't tell from the pic, but the fluid is very yellowish, but tinged with blood.


Here is the jar with what came out of poor little Livvie:

Here is Olivia for those of you who don't know her. She isn't a large girl at all. She is in the foreground, with Ivy, who is ailing with the same thing, in the back.

 

[speckledhen]

I would love to hear more about your opinion of the fermented feed. What have you seen that makes you against it? I have only ever heard good. As far as yogurt, I have often read people saying that chickens can't digest dairy? I do on occasion share some of my fresh kefir with the girls. They love it!

Well, yogurt is different than plain milk. And I think raw milk is different than today's pasteurized milk. They are fine with yogurt, IMO, because it is digested easier than milk. Farmers fed chickens raw milk to treat coccidiosis in the old days. And it's said that adding powdered milk to chick starter can help with cocci, though I prefer to just go right to the heart of it and use Corid because I dont have a source for raw milk right now.

As far as fermented feed, a late night conference call from a friend with another frantic friend of hers while her entire flock was sick and/or dying with sour crop after beginning a fermented feed regimen was enough for me. The only thing different was she began a fermented feed regimen, thinking it was beneficial. I told her to quit that immediately and told her how to treat the sour crop, but it was too late for some. She lost several birds and had a lab necropsy them. The feed was the verified cause.

Avian species have a crop which is a completely different digestive system than mammals. You never want any food on the verge of sour/moldy for a bird and that's what fermented is on the way to being. Food wet just before they eat it is fine. Fermented feed is not for avian species, IMO, and is a fad that needs serious rethinking. It's almost become a religion to some folks, but I am 100% against it and no one will convince me otherwise. I do all I can to keep their feed completely dry to avoid mold setting up in it. I've lost birds to hidden moldy feed, long story when the co-op had a flood and missed a bag of feed or two in those plastic bags that don't show they've been wet.

 

[speckledhen]

My Goldie (in my avatar) passed away about an hour ago. I don't understand; as she was so much better after I drained off the fluid yesterday. She rapidly took a turn for the worse overnight. She was very weak, comb was turning purple, and would no longer eat or drink. I put her in a warm Epsom salt bath hoping to ease her discomfort. Within about 10 minutes I could feel her dying. I can't explain how, I could just tell. But it wasn't disturbing or uncomfortable. She passed about 10 minutes after that with my hands around her (I had to hold her up, she had no muscle control) and talking to her softly.
This is my first flock member loss and of course she was my favorite and the best hen (personality-wise) in the flock. I'm utterly devastated. Thank you @speckledhen for creating this thread. I hope it will help others like it helped me.

I'm very sorry for your loss, Trish. But, as I said, all draining does it make them slightly more comfortable. Hens like that are on their last legs. They usually rally a bit right before the end, but the end is always near. There was nothing you could do to save her, but you have learned something from the experience. Thank her for that and the joy she brought you. She was your first loss, but she won't be your last if you keep chickens any length of time. I've watched this over and over and over again. It never gets easier.

I am glad the thread helped you, though I wish it could have saved your hen (and all mine who came after Olivia, Ivy, etc....).

 

[bawkbawkbawk]

I know this isn’t what you want to hear but I am in total agreement with @speckledhen

We kept a favorite hen going on Lupron shots and yes I think Baytril was in the mix, too. We prolonged her life a few months but I don’t think it was worth her suffering or the expense.

https://polloplayer.wordpress.com/2012/02/04/1000-days-of-autumn/

I have heard that chickens will die if exposed to anesthesia but have no personal experience.

We tried desperately to save another hen and subjected her to repeated vet visits and procedures, which I would not do again. The necropsy revealed ovarian cancer. She could not have been saved anyway and spent her last days being poked and probed at the vet.

As hard as it is to stand by and watch them die, I think that’s my plan going forward. Make them comfortable, honor their passing with gentleness and let them go.

 

[speckledhen]

After posting on a few other pages I read it could be EYP, or Ascites,

Actually, ascites can be a symtom of EYP, heart issues, liver issues or cancer, all or any of them. Ascites is not the main issue, but only a symptom of something you can't see inside. Tylan is really for respiratory issues and will not affect anything to do with her bloat. Actually, even stronger antibiotics probably won't, either. There really is no way to know exactly what is causing it until she passes and you open her up to check her organs, I'm sorry to say. If you can find a place for her in the flock and she is living a semi-normal life, you can just let her live as long as she does with her peeps. That's what I do unless a bird is horribly injured or almost gone anyway.

 

[speckledhen]

Olivia is still alive, so far. She is dying and there is no hope for her. When she stops functioning, we'll euthanize her. Ivy died yesterday, same ailment.

 

[speckledhen]

There is no cure, no prevention. It's genetic/hormonal and common in high production breeds. Olivia and Tux are the first non-hatchery girls who've had this here. I've lost 8 to it so far.

It's hard to diagnose--I've just been through this so many times now that I am alert to it- it starts when the bird keeps going to the nest, sits, no egg. This happens over and over--this is happening with Tux right now. Eventually, she quits going to the nest. The abdomen can fill with fluid/yolk/infection and be huge and tight, but sometimes, gunk backs up just in the oviducts,which you won't know unless you open her up when she dies. The hen eventually loses an alarming amount of weight (you have to pick them up to really notice it), then becomes weaker and weaker, then either we euthanize them or they pass away on their own. If you read my thread about Ivy, she rebounded twice, but it is chronic and will eventually kill the hen, no matter what.

 

[speckledhen]

Drained Olivia for the 4th time. This time, we drained 390 cc of icky green fluid from her abdomen. For educational purposes, I photographed it for you. She is still getting on the roost by waddling up a ramp we built for her, but she won't be here much longer.

ETA: well, just crapola. I found her sister, Tux, standing and staring off into space in the pen while the other old ladies, including Olivia, were out free ranging. When I picked her up, she didn't even flinch, completely un-Tux-like. Checked her over and though I've suspected internal laying with Tux since she came back out of her molt and kept going to the nest without producing an egg, I find no bloating, no discernible egg in the oviduct, no extreme weight loss (she actually has gained weight since her molt finished), nothing, except that her heart is racing to beat the band. When putting her down, she staggers and catches herself with her wing. She holds her wings slightly drooped and can't walk without falling over. I suspect she will be passing away soon as well as Olivia. Since I lost their sister, Kate, last year to crop stasis, I won't have anymore Poufy Head Sisters.

**** Just saw my Buff Orp look at Tux closely in the face, then start to attack her. She knows. This is what Tux did to Ivy a couple of days or so before she died and we removed her to die in peace.

 

[speckledhen]

What is strange is that she acts almost like someone who has had a stroke. She just stands where we put her, then if we push her down into a sitting position, she just stays there. She won't eat or drink on her own and seems weaker on her right side. Never had one act like this before.

 

[speckledhen]

With Tux, there is nothing to do, not even draining her abdomen. She looks normal and bright eyed, she's just quit functioning and seems dazed. We squeezed a vitamin E gelcap into her mouth, but other than that, I'm at a loss. She'll either die or snap out of it. If she hadn't been going on the nest repeatedly and leaving egg-less, I wouldn't suspect internal laying at all.