Educate me on Seed Saving

[5 Points Wingfeather]

I would like to save seed, and I did save some okra seed from last year, but I have some questions.

1. It’s useless to save seed from a hybrid, correct?
2. Does “heirloom” mean it’s not a hybrid and you can save seed from it?
3. What do people do who plant, for instance 3 varieties of peppers or tomatoes? What do you do if you plant squash and zucchini? Just don’t save seed in those circumstances?


I want to save seed but I feel like it’s pointless since many plants are hybrids and even if they aren’t I want multiple plants that can cross pollinate. Am I missing something ?

 

[PaperChicken]

First look at their scientific names which is genus species. If the species is the same, they can cross with one another so some care must be taken. Genus name doesn't matter.

1. Hybrids don't breed back true so you will have a "tomato" but it likely wont have the same characteristics as the parent plants so if you save a hybrid seed, there is no telling what kind of tomato you would get. If it were good, then the next generation would probably be somewhat different.

2. Heirloom means that seed has been saved for a long time, since at least the 50's or something. You can save heirloom seed and it come back true, unless it cross pollinates. There are standard tomatoes that aren't heirlooms but aren't hybrids. They just don't have the "heritage" like heirlooms.

3. Tomtoes and peppers are less likely to cross because the male and female parts are in the same flower, but it can still happen. Cucurbits have separate male and female flowers so they are very likely to cross if different species are close by because pollinators are involved.

Find out which variety you like first (such as tomatoes) before saving its seed. Squash is a general term and probably in another species as zucchini. Just have to look it up.

 

[sheknitsandcrochets]

I've never really saved seed myself, but I'll give some information I've learned through research:

1. You, can, save seed from hybrid plants. The problem is that the results can be unpredictable. From my understanding, F1 hybrids are the direct result of 2 different varieties being crossed. For example, tomato variety A crosses with tomato variety B, and at the end of the season you take one of the tomatoes from the crossed plant and save its seeds. When you plant those seeds next season, you get a totally different variety of tomato from the variety of the mother plant (the plant you took the tomato from). The new tomato variety is an F1 hybrid. Not all non-heirloom seed varieties are F1 hybrids, so some hybrids may be more reliable than others. Some people actually like saving seed from hybrid plants because of the surprising results they can yield. You can save seeds from hybrid plants (including crops other than tomatoes), you just won't know what will come from its offspring.

2. From my understanding, seed varieties are considered heirlooms when they've existed for 50+ years. As long as cross pollinating is prevented (and the seeds are from a legitimate source), you can save seeds from heirloom plants and their offspring should always yield the same, matching results as the mother plant (the plant you saved the seeds from).

3. To save consistent seeds from a plant, for example a tomato, that's among other, in this case tomato, varieties, you would have to plant the varieties far away from each other, or otherwise prevent the plants' pollen from coming in contact with each other. One way you could achieve this by hand pollinating the plant's flowers as soon as they open, and then covering it with a mesh bag to prevent unwanted pollen to coming in contact with it afterwards (like pollen from the other tomato varieties).

4. Squash varieties I believe are more difficult. I think you can use similar tactics as I just discussed for them.

Please note that I am not an expert on seed saving and could be mistaken on some of these points. I have researched seed saving some before, though, and I'm just sharing what I've gathered.

 

[sheknitsandcrochets]

First look at their scientific names which is genus species. If the species is the same, they can cross with one another so some care must be taken. Genus name doesn't matter.

1. Hybrids don't breed back true so you will have a "tomato" but it likely wont have the same characteristics as the parent plants so if you save a hybrid seed, there is no telling what kind of tomato you would get. If it were good, then the next generation would probably be somewhat different.

2. Heirloom means that seed has been saved for a long time, since at least the 50's or something. You can save heirloom seed and it come back true, unless it cross pollinates. There are standard tomatoes that aren't heirlooms but aren't hybrids. They just don't have the "heritage" like heirlooms.

3. Tomtoes and peppers are less likely to cross because the male and female parts are in the same flower, but it can still happen. Cucurbits have separate male and female flowers so they are very likely to cross if different species are close by because pollinators are involved.

Find out which variety you like first (such as tomatoes) before saving its seed. Squash is a general term and probably in another species as zucchini. Just have to look it up.

Great explanation.

 

[Sally PB]

https://www.amazon.com/Seed-Garden-Art-Practice-Saving/dp/0988474913

I have this book. It's not cheap, about $40, but you might find it used or borrow it from the library. It will tell what you need to know about how to save vegetable seeds.

Some heirloom vegetables will ready cross with another of their kind, some are much less likely to do so. This book will tell you what to do in all cases, and also tell you how to harvest and treat the seed so that it will be ready to plant.

Example: tomato seeds need to soak in water for a few days, then be spread out to dry. (That's the description in a nutshell; there's more to it than that.) Beans and peas need to stay in the bean or pod until they are dry, then winnowed, dried some more, and stored.

You can also look most of this up online. I just like having a book ready at my fingertips. Oh, the photography is stunning too.

 

[Wot The Flock]

Seconded to what PaperChicken said.

It's a huge subject, all on its own, and you need to research each plant (and variety) to find out how to save seed, how to germinate, soils and growing, etc. There can be differences with different plants.

Cross-pollination is something generally to be avoided (like bell peppers crossing with chilli peppers, makes the subsequent generations of chillis less hot).

Find out what grows well in your area (and when), determine what you like to eat. That is your short list. It is possible, but difficult, to grow something not suitable for your climate, but generally not worth the hassle.

Try to source locally produced seeds or seedlings, and heirloom is often the better bet. If you have a local nursery, go there and ask questions.

 

[Acre4Me]

All good info above.

Squash are in 4 species groups. They cross within the species group but not between.

For example, C. moschata group includes Butternuts. These will cross pollinate easily with any other in the moschata group. There is a C. maxima group that includes Hubbard squash and others. These will not cross pollinate with maxima.

There is C. pepo group, which includes summer squash , and a fourth group I can’t remember.

This year, I’m going to purposefully plant C. maxima to keep the squash vine borer happy with those bc they LOVE the plants in this group and will preferentially attack them. That way, my beloved butternuts will grow and produce well. So, the maxima will be my trap crop. One year my butternuts were attacked, but I had nothing preferred for the SVB, but last year I inadvertently planted a maxima type and those were heavily impacted by SVB, but my butternuts were left alone.

 

[LaurenRitz]

It is a big subject. If you want that exact fruit, you can use distance, or put another taller crop between, or only plant one variety per year (assuming your neighbors aren't growing the same thing) or put small bags over the flowers you want to save seed from and hand pollinate with a paintbrush. Make sure you do each flower more than once to ensure pollination.

I personally don't care. I have a zucchini-spaghetti squash mix that has the production of the zucchini, ripens very fast, the strings of the spaghetti squash, and keeps into early spring. I deliberately cross just about everything so I can get tastes and plant behavior that conform to me rather than the pocketbook of a supermarket breeder.

If something doesn't taste good to me, I just don't keep seeds from that plant, or even pull it if I don't want it spreading its pollen.

So I end up with massive genetic diversity and taste variety, food I can actually enjoy, plants that are drought and cold tolerant, or whatever else is important to me as a participant in the plant's journey.

It's called landracing. It's not for everyone, but it works very well for me.

 

[saysfaa]

...
I want to save seed but I feel like it’s pointless since many plants are hybrids and even if they aren’t I want multiple plants that can cross pollinate. Am I missing something ?

It can be really easy. It depends somewhat on your goals. If you want just the things you listed, then I'm not sure.

But if you want to save as many seeds as you can, as a general way of life type thing - one way to do it is to start small and easy. I accidentally started with radishes because the flowers were pretty so I let them keep growing. Turns out saving radishes seeds is really easy - a simple netsearch will give you how to do it more efficiently or you can just pick the dry pods, hold them in a paper bag through the winter (or not, evidently) and crack them open over some dirt in the spring. I don't care if they bred true or not; I planted them to mark the rows of things that take longer to come up. Then the chickens liked them, so I left them after the other things came up.

That was fun, so I save a few more things each year. Some are much more difficult, for lots of reasons but many of the concepts are similar - let them mature, keep them dry (or not, for some), some need stratification (the seed coat scored or cracked or whatever), and so on.

 

[Sally PB]

So I end up with massive genetic diversity and taste variety, food I can actually enjoy, plants that are drought and cold tolerant, or whatever else is important to me as a participant in the plant's journey.

This is really cool!

I've read that plants that grow from seeds you've saved from your own garden are "pre-conditioned" to do well in your particular garden. You're actually selecting for specimens that do well in your soil, location, etc.