genetic

[Rosa moschata]

Normal looking parent could also be dark pied. Split will produce 50/50 pied/normal looking (split). Dark pied will produce 100% pieds.

From all I've read and seen, Dark Pied birds will have some white flights, and often (or always...can't remember) a white patch on the throat. The amount of white can be small, but since normal IB adults shouldn't have any white patches on the wings or throat, even a small amount would mean the bird isn't a "normal looking parent."

 

[DylansMom]

Okay.....I have a Pied/Silver Pied question for the experts here. This is actually a visual question as opposed to theoretical. In July we hatched 2 Pied chicks. I know there are 2 possibilities for the parents, but am unsure of exact parentage as they were hatched under a surrogate hen who wouldn't let me have a front row seat to the actual hatching. There was an obvious color difference in these from day one, the brown fuzz on one chick being much darker than that on the other chick. This difference at first had me thinking male/female, but now it is obvious that both are male. The lighter chick is now showing a lot of what I call silvering on his wing feathers( they are 12 weeks by the way) both possible parent pairs are male Pied x female Silver Pied. I am going to attach pics that I hope will help. My question is do you think the lighter one is going to be one of those Silver Pied birds who has the silvering, but is not 90% white. Or is it just a Pied WE bird? SOOOOO confusing, this Silver gene stuff!




Anybody have any thoughts????

 

[zazouse]

I am no expert but ...
I have read that those silver feathers can mean they are white eyed and you can get silvers out of them if bred with another white eyed if out of silver parents
, I have 2 hens like this and i can not wait to breed them with my silver pied male in a few years to see what they produce.

 

[KsKingBee]

I am no expert but ...
I have read that those silver feathers can mean they are white eyed and you can get silvers out of them if bred with another white eyed if out of silver parents
, I have 2 hens like this and i can not wait to breed them with my silver pied male in a few years to see what they produce.

This hen is my only pied hen, for now.

She came from the same place I got this IB Pied White Eye cock. This pairing is the probable parents of the only pied I hatched this year. Am I wrong to call her a Pied? I have read here that Pieds should have at least 40% white on them and I don't think she falls into that range. As you can see she has silver feathers on her back, is that a Pied, Silver, or White Eye thing? Or what combination could it be?









This is the probable offspring from the above pair. If he is White Eye wouldn't he have some silver feathers?

 

[DylansMom]

This hen is my only pied hen, for now.

She came from the same place I got this IB Pied White Eye cock. This pairing is the probable parents of the only pied I hatched this year. Am I wrong to call her a Pied? I have read here that Pieds should have at least 40% white on them and I don't think she falls into that range. As you can see she has silver feathers on her back, is that a Pied, Silver, or White Eye thing? Or what combination could it be?









This is the probable offspring from the above pair. If he is White Eye wouldn't he have some silver feathers?

This is what gets so confusing about Silver Pieds. My understanding is that the popular belief at this point is that Silver is a result of the Pied, White and WE genes intermingling and perhaps causing an additional mutation or blending of their affects that results in the Silvering of feathers. That doesn't mean it will happen everytime a bird is hatched that carries White, Pied and WE, if it is a mutation it is a "Fluke" and you can breed Whites to Pied WE birds for a lifetime and not get a Silver, or you could get one the first try. The surest way though is to purchase one that already carries Silver. Just like Peach, people bred Cameos to Purples and got Cameos, Purples and IB splits for years before a Peach ever popped up. Now we can get Peach by purchasing a Peach and breeding it. We could also purchase Cameo and Purple but that doesn't guarantee we will get any Peach from them

Looking at your hen in the picture I am not sure if I am seeing silvering or just a sprinkling of white feathers. Either way I would call her a Pied who may be split(carrying 1 gene) to WE. In order for a bird to be a "White Eyed" bird it must carry 2 copies of that gene resulting in all or almost all white eyes in the train. A bird carrying 1 copy of WE will have more like a sprinkling of white feathers in the train. I'll attach a picture of my Spalding hen who appears split to Pied and split to WE. This hen has no silvering, just 1 copy of Pied and1 copy of White Eye and this is how it shows up visually.

 

[KsKingBee]

This is what gets so confusing about Silver Pieds. My understanding is that the popular belief at this point is that Silver is a result of the Pied, White and WE genes intermingling and perhaps causing an additional mutation or blending of their affects that results in the Silvering of feathers. That doesn't mean it will happen everytime a bird is hatched that carries White, Pied and WE, if it is a mutation it is a "Fluke" and you can breed Whites to Pied WE birds for a lifetime and not get a Silver, or you could get one the first try. The surest way though is to purchase one that already carries Silver. Just like Peach, people bred Cameos to Purples and got Cameos, Purples and IB splits for years before a Peach ever popped up. Now we can get Peach by purchasing a Peach and breeding it. We could also purchase Cameo and Purple but that doesn't guarantee we will get any Peach from them

Looking at your hen in the picture I am not sure if I am seeing silvering or just a sprinkling of white feathers. Either way I would call her a Pied who may be split(carrying 1 gene) to WE. In order for a bird to be a "White Eyed" bird it must carry 2 copies of that gene resulting in all or almost all white eyes in the train. A bird carrying 1 copy of WE will have more like a sprinkling of white feathers in the train. I'll attach a picture of my Spalding hen who appears split to Pied and split to WE. This hen has no silvering, just 1 copy of Pied and1 copy of White Eye and this is how it shows up visually.

My hen is very camera shy but if you look at the third picture between the neck and the two white feathers on her back the feathers are very silver, my poor use of the camera does not show it as well as in person.

The cock I called IB/Pied/ WE is only carrying one copy of WE as he only has about one third to half his train in white eyes. Should I not call him WE unless ALL the train feathers are white eyed?

I have two sisters coming two this next year, Betty and Vanna (White Eye) who may be carrying two copies of WE. I will get better pics of them but they are very much more noticeable with their silver appearance and a spattering of white feathers, mostly fringed or tipped with white. I also have their brother, I will try to post him as well.

I very much appreciate the lessons and hope that others lurking here are learning too.

 

[DylansMom]

My hen is very camera shy but if you look at the third picture between the neck and the two white feathers on her back the feathers are very silver, my poor use of the camera does not show it as well as in person.

The cock I called IB/Pied/ WE is only carrying one copy of WE as he only has about one third to half his train in white eyes. Should I not call him WE unless ALL the train feathers are white eyed?

I have two sisters coming two this next year, Betty and Vanna (White Eye) who may be carrying two copies of WE. I will get better pics of them but they are very much more noticeable with their silver appearance and a spattering of white feathers, mostly fringed or tipped with white. I also have their brother, I will try to post him as well.

I very much appreciate the lessons and hope that others lurking here are learning too.

Trust me Bill it is not your poor use of a camera. When it comes to Peas it seems like things that are plain as day to the naked eye, often don't show up in a picture nearly as well. And sometimes it's the opposite. I posted a pic awhile back of my BS chick who I think is Bronze BS, in this picture he very clearly has white wing feathers and a white patch on one side, these are almost impossible to see with the naked eye. I am noticing this more and more, probably because I am taking so many more pics to post on here!


As for you IB/Pied/WE If it were me I would call him an IB Pied split WE. I believe a Pied with all white eyes would be called IB/Pied/WE, a Pied like your's with some would be an IB/Pied split WE, and a Pied with no white eyes would simply be an IB/Pied. Nanu's dad is a Pied split to WE, he hardly has a dozen white eyes but we know he carries 1 copy or he couldn't father Silver Pied offspring, as they must inherit 2 copies of WE..... 1 from each parent. Please keep in mind I am by no means an expert on these genetics esp. Silver Pied I'm still learning as well.

 

[Dany12]

An other question !

IB Pied X White = 50% IB Pied + 50% White.
Opal Pied X White = 50% Opal Pied + 50% White .

Then I breed those in red ..... IB Pied X White = 50% IB Pied + 50% White.
Opal color has disappeared ?

 

[Rosa moschata]

An other question !

IB Pied X White = 50% IB Pied + 50% White.
Opal Pied X White = 50% Opal Pied + 50% White .

Then I breed those in red ..... IB Pied X White = 50% IB Pied + 50% White.
Opal color has disappeared ?

The color won't be visual, but all offspring from the IB Pied X White will also be split to Opal -- so no, the Opal gene didn't disappear. It's just not visual in the offspring because they each received only one copy, and are thus splits.

Genetically, the White is also Opal (i.e. it has two copies of the Opal gene), but having two copies of the White gene will prevent pigment from being deposited in the feathers -- be it normal IB pigment, or the mutant Opal version. This is why people will say you need to keep records so as to know what's "under the White." Similarly, Whites from Silver Pied breeding will also be White-Eyed genetically, but looking at the bird, you couldn't tell.

 

[Dany12]

But there are no White split Pied .
White can be split of all patterns ... all colors ... but not split Pied ! ... because they are alleles !

...2 days later .... .... I'm wrong ... or not!