Guard Dogs

[Suzie]

Have you given any consideration to a German Shepherd ? Their traits are much like a Catahoula...and they are wonderful herding dogs and protectors...they can live outside too.

I have five GSD's here and could not ask for more of them..they protect all of my animals and are a great with people too...of course they need a lot of training and guidance as what to protect and what is a predator...i.e. foxes and buzzards are common here...as a breed the GSD is highly intelligent and they learn very quickly.

As an aside...I have three Donkeys here...they will bray loudly if a fox ventures near...they are no deterrent! Donkeys also bray at night...so double glazing is a must...! Donkeys are comparative in cost to a dog...donkeys need de-worming and vaccinations...they also need their feet trimming on average four times a year...they need shelter from heat and cold...they eat hay when the grass is not plentiful and if you have 1 acre...you would need to divide into paddocks..donkey poop may be good for the garden...that is a bonus.

 

[MrsBachbach]

I will research more and look for a short haired dog.  Maybe a Catahoula ?

Those are herding dogs. Require exercise and attention from what I read. Some have success with dogs bred for other purposes (although I would never try it with a hunting dog) but I would make sure it was a pup I would try to train. LGD's, or livestock guardian dogs, are bred for this purpose. It is instinctive behavior, not necessarily learned.

 

[JJSS89]

Catahoulas are stock dogs yep, would be difficult to turn into a chicken guard dog.

They would never be happy sitting watch on a bunch of clucky chickens

 

[centrarchid]

Those are herding dogs. Require exercise and attention from what I read. Some have success with dogs bred for other purposes (although I would never try it with a hunting dog) but I would make sure it was a pup I would try to train. LGD's, or livestock guardian dogs, are bred for this purpose. It is instinctive behavior, not necessarily learned.

LGD's are not bred for protecting chickens therefore instincti bred into such dogs does not apply with chickens. The LGD's require the same breaking in process as required for the hunting dogs and the latter are decidedly more trainable. The OP's proposed acre for confinement will be too tight for any large active dog. Smaller dog will better fencing will be the more cost effective approach.

 

[tarajane]

Ok, may as well tell you, I have decided on a Doberman.. now, before some of you go ballistic about how killer they are. It is ALL in how they are raised. We had 2 at two different times. No animals to look after, just 2 cats. One died of Cardiomyopathy and the other of liver disease. Those were the sweetest most caring dogs. I'm quite sure a thief would have fallen over them trying to rip us off. Again it is how they are raised. They are intimidating and we never had their ears cropped (that's another story). I just love them and now they can be tested for malady's that can contribute to their longevity...We're talking 10-11 years now not 4-5 years as ours were.
Thank you for letting me say all of this. I adore this chicken forum and cannot WAIT to get my farm which hopefully be late May.

 

[centrarchid]

Dobermans can work but get it to exercise body and mind.

 

[tarajane]

Will do, thanks

 

[MrsBachbach]

LGD's are not bred for protecting chickens therefore instincti bred into such dogs does not apply with chickens. The LGD's require the same breaking in process as required for the hunting dogs and the latter are decidedly more trainable. The OP's proposed acre for confinement will be too tight for any large active dog. Smaller dog will better fencing will be the more cost effective approach.

I'm going to disagree with that.

They may not have been bred over the ages to guard chickens but they will guard anything they are imprinted with. You imprint them at a young enough age and they will guard it. They have been bred to guard livestock, whether it be sheep, goats, pigs, or chickens. They will even guard us and we were not the intended subject either. It is the maternal protective instinct I am referring to. Nothing else. That's where imprinting comes into play. Because you seem to think that because the dog was used to guard sheep and goats for hundreds of years, that's all it will protect, instinctively. I'm telling you if a sheep or goat was brought on my property right now, that my dog would likely run it off! Why? Because it's foreign and she wasn't imprinted with them at a young age. Now, I can probably get her to accept them with introductions, just like any new animal I bring home and introduce her to.
This is an ancient breed that has a strong maternal protective instinct and it's that maternal protective instinct that makes them ideal for protection with just about any animal they are raised with. They just need to be imprinted at a young age. That protective maternal instinct makes the training period relatively easy and short. It is that protective maternal instinct that makes it very unlikely that they will harm whatever they are watching. Unlike the territorial instinct.
And LGD's are very trainable and smart. Now, if you are saying that the hunting dog is more obedient, you may have a point. But they are not any smarter. Mine is very smart and caught on quickly to commands. However, this ancient breed has been protecting it's livestock without the direction of man for thousands of years and because of that, it has had to think for itself and therefore, is very independent. That's what makes them ideal. They can and will do their job without the direction of their master. Mine knows when she is on leash, that I am in command. Off leash, she uses her own head and obeys her instincts which are protective, not herding or hunting, protective. And they have the ability to perceive how great the threat is. Which is great if you have people visiting your property because you sure don't want your territorial guard dog attacking a person. That was a huge consideration for me because I have people jogging or biking along the road occasionally. I don't want a guard dog that is going to attack everything on sight and I don't want one that needs me there to tell it they are not a threat.
And as far as space goes, the Pyrenees does not require acres of space. An acre is plenty large for it. They are not a highly energetic breed. Some would even call them lazy. But they are not, they have their eyes and ears open. They tend to sit around and observe with occassional perimeter walks. Their lack of high energy makes their food consumption needs less than a dog of smaller size but high energy.
In short, an LGD is made for the job of guarding livestock. Because of that, the training needed is not as extensive, but imprinting is needed. Many people don't even need to train their pups because mom and pop on the property train the pups for them. If OP was of a mind to get one at an age other than a pup, I would tell them to make sure the dog was raised with poultry.

 

[centrarchid]

I have experience with LGD's and the dogs I prefer to use with poultry. When is comes to use with poultry, the treatment of dogs is the same regardless of breed. Imprinting works well with herding animals that move about landscape but such does not provide advantages with chicken flocks that are sedentary in that they seldom range over more than a few acres. I have employed imprinting with other dogs breeds now and it just does not provide the advantages needed for dispersed chicken flocks that are targeting by predators that employ the snatch and run approach. The dog simply needs to guard the location and otherwise leave your stock alone. It can respond to chicken alarm calls which for my dogs that is standard. Not everyone will agree with your assertion about GP's thriving in a small area. With really small areas of a couple of acres or less other non-guard animals tend to be more cost effective unless the guard animal has other uses.

 

[MrsBachbach]

I have experience with LGD's and the dogs I prefer to use with poultry. When is comes to use with poultry, the treatment of dogs is the same regardless of breed. Imprinting works well with herding animals that move about landscape but such does not provide advantages with chicken flocks that are sedentary in that they seldom range over more than a few acres. I have employed imprinting with other dogs breeds now and it just does not provide the advantages needed for dispersed chicken flocks that are targeting by predators that employ the snatch and run approach. The dog simply needs to guard the location and otherwise leave your stock alone. It can respond to chicken alarm calls which for my dogs that is standard. Not everyone will agree with your assertion about GP's thriving in a small area. With really small areas of a couple of acres or less other non-guard animals tend to be more cost effective unless the guard animal has other uses.

While the treatment of the dogs may be the same, the response always isn't. You could very well lose some of your flock to your own dog when not watching. That's unlikely with an LGD. I too had a different shepard mix here once. She was set to make lunch out of my flock until she received a hard lesson. She didn't touch them after that , but she sure didn't protect or guard them either. I was still losing birds with her around. Coyotes were even snatching and taking several off at a time. That does not happen anymore with my LGD.

That fact that chickens are sedentary and don't roam much actually makes it more ideal for a lone LGD. With a smaller area to watch, she is able to keep an eye out on all the different bird groups. Now, if you are saying that your LGD will follow the sheep out to pasture and leave the chickens alone around the barn, yes, if you have multi livestock and huge acreage that can happen if she is raised around the goats. But, OP only has an acre, so that's not likely to happen. Just as I only have a few acres and only chickens, no other ranging animal. Even though I have a few unfenced acres, the dog stays here where we and the chickens are. They simply aren't energetic dogs and an acre is actually pretty large for a sedentary animal. Large enough for a single Pyre. Will the dog go beyond the acre if able? You bet. Just like any dog would. But they will not stray far from that they are imprinted with. Is it easier to lose a chicken here and there with an LGD as opposed to a goat? Well yes, because it takes no time at all for a chicken to be snatched. Although, my dog did save one of my chickens from a hawk that had her down. But overall, they do their barking and keep many predators away. I think I have only lost two birds in the six years I've had my dog. One to the neighbor dog while she was still young and untested (this is the episode where she really matured and understood her purpose) and one to a sneaky predator near the edge of the woods. So, nothing like what I had been experiencing on a yearly basis where I was losing most of my birds
.I really don't understand your cost effectiveness deal unless you feel it's just cheaper to replace your barnyard type chicken. That's likely true and if people don't get attached to their birds, it is cheaper to just replace the birds every year. However, if you feel an attachment to your birds or you have pricey breeds you raise and you want to free range then a guard dog makes sense. The LGD doesn't require any more food than a sixty pound dog and much less than a dog that size that is highly energetic. You know how much my dog eats a day? Barely over a coffee can full of dry mix. Quality meat based food, not the filler type cheap stuff. That's another topic though.
Now if you are talking about the price you may have to pay to obtain an LGD, as opposed to a pound puppy, that's a little different, but not impossible. A shelter dog will cost you roughly $50 to pick up at the pound unless they are having a special. I found mine through local newspaper ads for $150. I have seen people ask as much as $500 and I have seen them for as cheap as $50 each at times. Usually when someone is trying to sell the last of the pups born every year. You can usually get the LGD crosses for these prices, like an Anatolian x Pyre mix which will probably be my next choice when I lose this one.
I am very happy with my dog. My neighbor was very happy with his and had similar circumstances. My other neighbor not as much, but I'm convinced it was their training methods to blame there. The raised their LGD with a mutt and that's who the dog bonded to. A chicken killing mutt at that! Their LGD didn't kill the chickens but the mutt did. So, it is important how you raise and handle these dogs, as with any dog. It's head shaking to read on this forum alone those topics "my dog killed my chickens". Well, duh. It's what most dogs do. Sure, some dogs can be raised up with your chickens and leave them alone, but not all dogs are protective of their territory. That's when your chickens will be in danger from other dogs and predators. Because that dog just doesn't have the "it's my territory" get out of here mentality. You know those types of dogs exist. They pee when they see you. Or they are friendly to a fault. They welcome everyone! They aren't going to stop an attack on your flock. So, while you can get your dog to accept your chickens, you really don't know what you are getting as far as "protective" or "territorial" instinct.
One other thing. The problem with a "territorial" dog for some people will be the liability they can be exposed to. If you live way out in the country, there may be no problem. If you socialize the territorial dog, there may be no problem. But, territorial animals are not always friendly to people. That was a huge concern of mine when choosing a guard dog. I'm not fenced, as most people with some acrege aren't. I can't risk a territorial dog attacking somone walking down the road or making a delivery. When researching breeds, that was #1 on my list of priorities. Maternal, protective instinct works much better for me than territorial.