LOS ANGELES county CA under bird quarantine :(

[Aunt Angus]

FWIW, I have already contacted my local vet who is willing to come to my property to euthanize my birds via injection or isolated gassing should it come to that.

 

[Aunt Angus]

Mind explaining the "human condition" to me because as a human being subject to 1) the terms of the CDFA edicts and 2) the threat of losing my birds to vNC or "depopulation", I thought I was in touch with it. [OK, that was a little glib but meant sincerely.]

What I'm saying is I've dealt with all of this in a very real way, placed myself squarely in proportion to the larger threat -- at least in theory -- for the present, thank god -- and formed my plan to dispatch my birds if necessary. That doesn't mean I think it will be easy or that I won't be crying through it. But, if it's necessary, they're mine and so it's mine to do whatever the personal pain!

Just like the rest of you I got chickens in the first place because I wanted to care for them. I wanted my eggs to come from birds who I knew lived a good life 'cause I made it good for them. I resolved from the beginning to let them live out their lives past their egg-laying years. I still want all of that and I want it for others -- because I'm aware I'm not the only person on the planet. So I will do what it's necessary to do in the short run to protect my rights and my chickens' futures for the long run. AND everyone else's. I think that's the obligation of anyone else who has taken the responsibility of animals and living in a community with others.

Not directed at you, necessarily. Directed at those who are dismissing the why behind the emotional responses. I am not irresponsible. I am just sensitive to the feelings of others.

 

[BreanneRN]

Tell me about it! If I have to do it I'm talking about my first cull and something I NEVER thought I'd have to do.

I'm not pretending ANY of this is easy but sometimes Life and circumstances require things of us that we have to find the character to do. ...because they're the right thing and the responsible thing for our birds, for our futures and for the communities we belong to and have obligations to.

Your attitude and sense of responsibility to community is admirable and I appreciate your point of view... You, however, are just the type of responsible community member that the CDFA has been disrespecting. People who follow the rules and believe in sacrifice for the greater good. Imagine this scenario: after you have been notified that you are in the "depopulation zone" and notified them that you will euthanize your birds or find someone to do it properly and set a date for a time for them to come and inspect the bodies, the CDFA personnel come with a warrant in the middle of a day prior to your set date while you are at work, break into your property in torn hazmat suits and dirty boot covers, take your birds, pile them into a metal garbage can and when finally dead (or are they, really?) throw them into a trash bag and take them to the nearest landfill and dump them to be picked at by flocks of seagulls. You come home to broken gates and locks, and your beloved pets are missing. You can tell from all the feathers that it didn't go well... How are you feeling now? Betrayed, grief-stricken, angry, emotionally devastated? Would you feel like you wanted to do something to keep this from happening to someone else? Maybe not, I don't know. I would not wish it on anyone. Fortunately, Woodland Hills is not an area that is heavily populated with commercial chicken facilities, so you are probably safe. I hope so, anyway. Sadly, the whole CDFA operation has been run in a way that would lead you to think that they are more concerned with prolonging the grant money it generated than ending the outbreak of VND and the quarantine. And that might just be the truth...

 

[Aunt Angus]

Your attitude and sense of responsibility to community is admirable and I appreciate your point of view... You, however, are just the type of responsible community member that the CDFA has been disrespecting. People who follow the rules and believe in sacrifice for the greater good. Imagine this scenario: after you have been notified that you are in the "depopulation zone" and notified them that you will euthanize your birds or find someone to do it properly and set a date for a time for them to come and inspect the bodies, the CDFA personnel come with a warrant in the middle of a day prior to your set date while you are at work, break into your property in torn hazmat suits and dirty boot covers, take your birds, pile them into a metal garbage can and when finally dead (or are they, really?) throw them into a trash bag and take them to the nearest landfill and dump them to be picked at by flocks of seagulls. You come home to broken gates and locks, and your beloved pets are missing. You can tell from all the feathers that it didn't go well... How are you feeling now? Betrayed, grief-stricken, angry, emotionally devastated? Would you feel like you wanted to do something to keep this from happening to someone else? Maybe not, I don't know. I would not wish it on anyone. Fortunately, Woodland Hills is not an area that is heavily populated with commercial chicken facilities, so you are probably safe. I hope so, anyway. Sadly, the whole CDFA operation has been run in a way that would lead you to think that they are more concerned with prolonging the grant money it generated than ending the outbreak of VND and the quarantine. And that might just be the truth...

Perfectly said. Wow.

 

[IamRainey]

Me too, Aunt Angus. I was a Sociology major and I'm still a certified bleeding heart liberal of the old school. But my sensitivity to the feelings of others has limits and Kerri Hand's irresponsible fear mongering and urging others to break the law and deliberately risk further spread of the contagion -- despite her claims to have been a member of law enforcement once upon a time -- are waaaaay past my threshold.

She IS as dangerous to the health and existence of my flock and others in the quarantined counties as the cockfighting cock_______s and by her own choice because of the influence she's gathered and her single-minded vendetta against the CDFA.

Communities are made up of individuals who impact one another. All of their/our interests and feelings need to be protected but often the greater need eclipses individual sensibilities out of necessity.

I see no value in not identifying what Kerri Hand is actively doing for what it is -- grossly counter productive and anti-social. It will probably also cost the state of CA funds and focus that should be devoted to the eradication of vND. And I think her SOB followers are sadly misguided however sincere they are in their intent.

Sorry we disagree about this because I respect the sincerity of your own intentions and argument.

 

[Aunt Angus]

Me too, Aunt Angus. I was a Sociology major and I'm still a certified bleeding heart liberal of the old school. But my sensitivity to the feelings of others has limits and Kerri Hand's irresponsible fear mongering and urging others to break the law and deliberately risk further spread of the contagion -- despite her claims to have been a member of law enforcement once upon a time -- are waaaaay past my threshold.

She IS as dangerous to the health and existence of my flock and others in the quarantined counties as the cockfighting cock_______s and by her own choice because of the influence she's gathered and her single-minded vendetta against the CDFA.

Communities are made up of individuals who impact one another. All of their/our interests and feelings need to be protected but often the greater need eclipses individual sensibilities out of necessity.

I see no value in not identifying what Kerri Hand is actively doing for what it is -- grossly counter productive and anti-social. It will probably also cost the state of CA funds and focus that should be devoted to the eradication of vND. And I think her SOB followers are sadly misguided however sincere they are in their intent.

Sorry we disagree about this because I respect the sincerity of your own intentions and argument.

It's ok. I have such a hard time knowing when to shut up. I should have shut up long ago because I realize my opinions amount to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

[IamRainey]

Yes, Breanne. Ignoring the fact that no one would ever have to break into anything because my yard is not locked, I'd be distraught. I'm sure it would take me a while to get over it. But 1) I'd have to and 2) I'd still be invested in the disease being eradicated so that the quarantine could be lifted and I could get chicks and start again.

By the way, I think you're right that I'm presently not near any commercial operations but it was only a few years ago that I was within a few miles of the teaching flocks and facilities at Pierce. Beyond that, none of us know how close we may be to people who frequent cockfighting events. There are people who come on my property all the time as gardeners, tree trimmers, plumbers, deliver folks, electricians, etc. who may have and bring exposure with them. And I may bring it in myself from one of the feedstores I buy from who service anyone in the community who feeds their flocks.

I still have a noisy and aggressive rooster because I've never been able to offer him on Craig's list in fear he'd go to someone in my area who would put him in a fighting ring.

Now let me propose a hypothetical to you.

You have a flock of 10 or 20 or 30 birds. There is a highly contagious and rapidly spreading incurable disease called virulent Withering Comb (vWC). One of your chickens suddenly isn't sporting a comb anymore. Are you going to wait for the rest of them to catch it? Or are you going to isolate the sick bird as quickly as you can?

This is what the state of CA is attempting to do. Everything else is drama. And none of us is served by the folks who are ratcheting up the drama or sitting on the sidelines criticizing.

 

[IamRainey]

If you're out, Aunt Angus, then so am I. I have no wish to silence anyone. And I suppose I've said what I have to say.

I wish all of you and all of your flocks well.

 

[flutemomc]

One thing that really frustrates me is the lack of correct legal documents that are supplied to owners. Many forms claim that they have signed days before that they consent to this or are inaccurate forms (some said they were euthanizing due to avian flu) I believe that the emotions behind the movement is due to a feeling a helplessness. I can’t imagine getting a letter saying they are coming on this day to do new castle tests on your birds only for them to show up unannounced and kill them (especially if it is one of those instances when it is done in an inhuman way). I understand that birds need to be killed, it just seems that there has been 1) a complete disregard for homeowners rights and a lack of an avenue for complaints and 2) a lack of bio security and humane euthanization methods in some situations. Both of these things are going to cause emotional responses

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

Me too, Aunt Angus. I was a Sociology major and I'm still a certified bleeding heart liberal of the old school. But my sensitivity to the feelings of others has limits and Kerri Hand's irresponsible fear mongering and urging others to break the law and deliberately risk further spread of the contagion -- despite her claims to have been a member of law enforcement once upon a time -- are waaaaay past my threshold.

She IS as dangerous to the health and existence of my flock and others in the quarantined counties as the cockfighting cock_______s and by her own choice because of the influence she's gathered and her single-minded vendetta against the CDFA.

Communities are made up of individuals who impact one another. All of their/our interests and feelings need to be protected but often the greater need eclipses individual sensibilities out of necessity.

I see no value in not identifying what Kerri Hand is actively doing for what it is -- grossly counter productive and anti-social. It will probably also cost the state of CA funds and focus that should be devoted to the eradication of vND. And I think her SOB followers are sadly misguided however sincere they are in their intent.

Sorry we disagree about this because I respect the sincerity of your own intentions and argument.

The SOB lawsuit, posted here, focuses first on putting the "humane" back into "humane euthanasia" and second on making the state prove that the euths of pets are necessary.

Regardless of our individual views, I think we all disapprove of the way this has been happening: Flapping birds stepped on with smiling men with guns shooting aimlessly. Men with ripped biosuits throwing live birds into a can (it's a plastic brute can btw) on top of each other, capping it, then opening it to see if birds are dead. Driving around between kill sites with trucks full of dead birds leaking fluids and decomposing. Going to the wrong location unannounced and shooting birds. We can all agree that this shouldn't be going on.

Hand was on site at a homeowner visited for test last week. The CDFA/USDA workers all identified themselves. Hand and the homeowner asked if a negative result of this flock would mean the birds would be spared. The team said yes. Hand and the homeowner asked what would happen if they were positive. The team said notice of positive results would be delivered to the homeowner. Hand and the homeowner then brought the six egglayers to the gate for test. Hand videoed this. Hand later went on the sob site to say that if it's handled like this going forward, Hand will have considered her mission fulfilled.

I'm aware Hand was told there were infected prems close to her, so close that she could reasonably surmise who they were. But at the time, let's remember that Jones herself told Hand that what would happen would not. Their messaging has evolved to telling homeowners that there's a 0.62 mi (1 km) kill perimeter. If homeowners are shown results by even zip code and dates, that goes toward showing usda/cdfa is also following the rules. If USDA/CDFA brings MAK carts to separate the birds they have to kill and puts them in individually, that handles a lot of the humane concerns. They have gotten over $600M to do it, they've had over a year, and as the other poster said, there's been plenty of time--and money--for education and proper protocol. Let it start now.

Now as to the second thing about pets being killed: Looking at the CDFA/USDA data itself, they themselves are clear that egglaying flocks under 20 are literally under 2 percent of the detections. I myself would engage the legal process to get an injunction against this as I don't feel it is justified, I would expect to have to follow very strict quarantine/isolation protocols while the legal process went through and I would abide by whatever that due process found. People do this with dangerous dogs--dogs that have bit people and killed animals off their property--all the time in my county.

So, again, I think the hamfisted methods are a huge part of this problem and completely unnecessary regardless of the larger euth-necessary issue. I think euth-necessary is also a legit challenge for the owners who don't even show up as statistical risks. Engaging legal processes and yes, filming on public property--is part of the process.