Mottled/Spangled Orpingtons

[mothernaturesdaughter]

I know you were not asking me this question but, while you are awaiting a reply from kidcody and I am not trying to answer for her... here is an interesting fact since your asking and I have also told kidcody this so its no secret. kid cody has possibly not read the message I sent her since she has not replied but anyway I did send her one so I hope she does not get upset with me since she possibly did not see the message I send to her about a week ago on RBA of which I did not expect or ask for a reply and I don't think she gets online very often at all not that its a big deal anyway.

I have hatched 29 chicks from my mottle orpington pair and 5 of them are jubilees.

From what I have learned from a few others they have all agreed that basically the jubilee has to be bred out of the mottles and from a friends egg hatching experience the 3rd generation mottles still produce the jubilees so I believe them.

There are several experienced breeders currently working together to achieve some new lines of mottles that no longer carries the jubilee gene. It is complicated for someone without the right knowledge and requires lots of pen space and patience and like you guys said you need to use black not jubilee...




And a very serious question to everyone...

Do you think it is my responsibility inform potential buyers that my chickens carry the jubilee gene or should the fact they come from a spangle to spangle breeding be sufficient from my end.
They are still desirable beautiful chickens. Would you personally want to know or is it insignificant? One buyer thought it was great that she could hatch either color so maybe others would think it is cool to get little surprise's, lol.

 

[jeremy]

I know you were not asking me this question but, while you are awaiting a reply from kidcody and I am not trying to answer for her... here is an interesting fact since your asking and I have also told kidcody this so its no secret. kid cody has possibly not read the message I sent her since she has not replied but anyway I did send her one so I hope she does not get upset with me since she possibly did not see the message I send to her about a week ago on RBA of which I did not expect or ask for a reply and I don't think she gets online very often at all not that its a big deal anyway.

I have hatched 29 chicks from my mottle orpington pair and 5 of them are jubilees.

From what I have learned from a few others they have all agreed that basically the jubilee has to be bred out of the mottles and from a friends egg hatching experience the 3rd generation mottles still produce the jubilees so I believe them.

There are several experienced breeders currently working together to achieve some new lines of mottles that no longer carries the jubilee gene. It is complicated for someone without the right knowledge and requires lots of pen space and patience and like you guys said you need to use black not jubilee...




And a very serious question to everyone...

Do you think it is my responsibility inform potential buyers that my chickens carry the jubilee gene or should the fact they come from a spangle to spangle breeding be sufficient from my end.
They are still desirable beautiful chickens. Would you personally want to know or is it insignificant? One buyer thought it was great that she could hatch either color so maybe others would think it is cool to get little surprise's, lol.

You should always fully disclose whether or not your birds carry what some people may consider "unwanted" genes/traits. As one person might be happy to hatch a Jubilee chick from a Mottled to Mottled breeding, it could seriously offend someone else. Full disclosure, to the best of your knowledge, of the genes your flock is carrying is the most responsible approach to breeding.

This goes for any color, Mottled, Jubilee, BBS, etc. If your (speaking generally now) birds have the potential to produce colors other than what the parent birds are, then potential buyers should be informed. Not doing so allows for the propagation of unwanted genes.

Because just because a bird doesn't show something, doesn't mean that it isn't still there. Whether it be an unwanted/foreign color or a fault, etc... doesn't mean that they aren't recessively carrying the necessary genes to produce offspring in the future that will show it.

 

[chickenbelle]

I am seeking someone selling mottled eggs. I would prefer not to purchase from Greenfire, and other places seem to only be selling chicks at this time. Anyone have any?

 

[Trooper Man]

I am seeking someone selling mottled eggs. I would prefer not to purchase from Greenfire, and other places seem to only be selling chicks at this time. Anyone have any?

I would say you could check rarebreedauctions.com. I seen some a while back that went for a decent price and I might have bid on them if the shipping was not so expensive.

 

[chickenbelle]

I am leery of using anyone on RBA that I don't know. I spent $500 on chicks last year that all arrived dead except for three. Those three were supposed to all be either partridge or gold laced english orps. Two were buffs and one was a black/gold laced split. The seller mailed them out to me almost a month late (after I posted paypal for a refund because they hadn't been sent despite my emails asking if there was a hold up) and had put all of the chicks in the box with two...kid you not...two containers of water zip tied to the box. All had drowned but the three.

 

[TurnedLuck]

I think it is very important that you disclose the genetic make up to the best of your knowledge. I also think it is reasonable for you to ask for a full refund for the pair you purchased since the breeder did not disclose to you that she had crossed varieties that would likely jeopardize the true breeding of the varieties. Mottles are used to improve Jubilees. Mottles produced from that mating are culls and SHOULD NEVER be bred back into a Mottle line due to the likelihood of red leakage which is a disqualification. Bad business.......

 

[jeremy]

Mottles are used to improve Jubilees. Mottles produced from that mating are culls and SHOULD NEVER be bred back into a Mottle line due to the likelihood of red leakage which is a disqualification.

I think this point is unknown by many "breeders" out there working with Mottled Orps... it deserves to be said again.

 

[TurnedLuck]

Jeremy I am new to chickens but bred show pigeons (still have race pigeons) and show guppies for years. Nothing is more frustrating than sorting out a line that has been mismanaged by a breeder. This is exponential when that breeder has mislead you about the genetic make up of the lines and you are surprised by the offspring after carefully laying out a breeding strategy to develop a family of your own. Sadly I think too many are blinded by $$$$$. I also believe too many take on genetic projects without doing the slightest amount of research on genetics or the breed. All you see is, "What color will I get if I mate this to this?" When these same people should decide on a goal, develop a plan and then research the genetic side of the project. But every one wants easy answers and to make quick $$$$$.

I just got involved in Sept. 2013 but am anxious to build my flock. I want to base my flock around Blacks, but breed and promote a variety of colors such as BBS, Chocolate, Lavender and Mottle in all of those colors. I also plan to undertake several color projects; which I have already spent hours researching and will continue to do so until I have them to standard. My plan is to show, even though I prefer the English Orpington. I know this will hurt my chances under APA judges but it is the best way to get the English Orpington in front of the poultry community and more accepted as the type that should be consider under the English Breed Class.

 

[Christabelle]

I honestly think it should be disclosed. Having jubilee in the mix will create red leakage in mottled birds. Maybe not all of them, but I would think a good percentage of them. I think a lot of people did this to churn out mottled chicks faster. I may be wrong though. Hopefully the seller disclosed it to you.

 

[Trooper Man]

I would like to get a started batch.