mystery illness not responding to treatments

[Waterfaery]

My young peafowl are having some sort of illness and the treatments I've tried so far aren't working on the worst affected.

At first, I thought they were suffering with the cold. For the past while we have had a very cold spell here and it seems to have been hard on my 2 year olds. It's interestingly similar to this recent thread from @DukesDucks. The older birds were totally unaffected but a lot of the younger ones were lethargic and huddled, especially the peacocks more so than the peahens. I also noticed some watery droppings so I wormed them with Fenbendazole for 5 days (even though they only recently had their routine worming in October).

The two worst affected have had drooping wings and started sleeping on the ground. I gave them a deep bed of straw and I treated the entire flock with Tylan. Since finishing the Tylan, the droppings have returned to normal. The majority of the flock are acting normal again but the temperatures are normal again so I don't know if it's just that or something more.

The two sickest still haven't recovered. I have no idea what's wrong with them so I decided to trial treating both of them with Toltrazuril and just the sickest one with Metronidazole to see if either would work.

The one who only had the Toltrazuril has started roosting up high again but still has drooping wings and is keeping to himself for a lot of the day. The one who has had both Toltrazuril and Metronidazole is showing no improvement at all and we currently have him isolated. He's had 3 doses of Metronidazole so far and is due his fourth today. His weight is only 2.9kg and now he seems to have stopped eating. I have a camera on him and I can see he's just waking up to drink a few times a day. He's been gradually eating less each day. He looks at the food bowls and decides not to eat. He has a variety of extra foods - chick starter, grains, peanuts, wet mash with peanut butter, scrambled egg and fresh greens.

I'm concerned that the Metronidazole has put him off eating because I've read it can cause severe nausea and he was eating on his own before we started him on it. I also wonder if it's worth continuing to treat with it since there's no improvement so far. Should I be seeing a difference by now if it was something that Metronidazole was going to treat?

I'm also concerned about the question of potential poisoning after losing another peacock a couple of months ago. I posted his necropsy in this thread and @KsKingBee mentioned poisoning as a possibility but we never got to the bottom of it and don't know what else to look for. Either way, I wonder if his death is related to this new illness even though the symptoms and speed of progression of illness are very different?

If you have any idea what I might be dealing with, please let me know. My current plan is to start the rest of the flock on a probiotic and to start tube feeding the sickest one today but I'm not sure if I should discontinue his Metronidazole or not? Or if there is anything else I can do?

 

[KsKingBee]

That is a sticky wicket you are up against. You didn't mention any birds dying so I assume you are on top of the situation. Blackhead is a quick killer and the birds normally die within a couple of days after showing symptoms, cocci takes only a few more days for them to pass. I am only grasping at straws here but I would take the sickest bird for a necropsy asap.

I have not had AI here but if you have damn guineas on your property that are not dying you can rule AI out.

Both cocci and BH will cause tumorous lesions on the gut and be very slow to heal if they ever do. They also cause the bird to lose interest in eating. Adding a capsule or two of krill oil to the feeding slurry helps when tube feeding.

I see you are replenishing the gut flora which is a very good idea anytime after giving antibiotics. An early lesson I learned was a bird that kept getting worse which made me think to give more ABs, as it turned out she had a yeast infection and needed good bacteria to counter it.

 

[theoldchick]

Have a necropsy performed by a state lab, send fecal samples to an avian vet, and send food samples to the state agricultural lab. You need a more targeted approach and these test will help identify what is going on and exactly what to treat it with.

 

[Waterfaery]

That is a sticky wicket you are up against. You didn't mention any birds dying so I assume you are on top of the situation. Blackhead is a quick killer and the birds normally die within a couple of days after showing symptoms, cocci takes only a few more days for them to pass. I am only grasping at straws here but I would take the sickest bird for a necropsy asap.

I have not had AI here but if you have damn guineas on your property that are not dying you can rule AI out.

Both cocci and BH will cause tumorous lesions on the gut and be very slow to heal if they ever do. They also cause the bird to lose interest in eating. Adding a capsule or two of krill oil to the feeding slurry helps when tube feeding.

I see you are replenishing the gut flora which is a very good idea anytime after giving antibiotics. An early lesson I learned was a bird that kept getting worse which made me think to give more ABs, as it turned out she had a yeast infection and needed good bacteria to counter it.

Thanks so much for your reply and for that advice. I'll see if I can get some krill oil tomorrow.

I only had the one peacock die back in October all of a sudden with very different symptoms so I'm not sure if that's related or not. I'm trying my best to be on top of it but I don't feel confident about the outcome with the sickest ones not improving.

If it was AI, I would have expected much quicker deaths and more widespread illness. I also wouldn't expect the majority of the flock to have improved if that's what's going on. It's just the two birds that seem to be still unwell now.

If it was Blackhead, would I expect to see any improvement after 3 days of Metronidazole? My original plan was to do a 5 day course of Metronidazole with the sickest one and follow that with the probiotics but it's hard to know if that's a good idea now. I can't say if he's getting worse or if he's just the same other than the reduced appetite but he's definitely not improving anyway. Would you advise stopping it now after the 3 doses and starting him on the probiotics with everyone else? Or should I see the 5 days through and just tube him in the meantime?

 

[KsKingBee]

You have good instincts, follow them. Being so far removed from your situation it is easy to tell you to sacrifice the bird for the good of the flock but that may not end with the information you need right now. I think that continuing the five day treatment will help more than stopping that and starting the probiotics. The probiotics will be slow to show results and the healing of the gut will slow it down further.

I do not know the relationship of giving both T and M at the same time, they may be canceling each other out. You had improvement with the one bird that had the T only and no improvement with the other(s) that had both. My guess is that you are having cocci issues. A key was the bird wanting to be away from the rest of the birds. Can you get a quick fecal exam done? It may be difficult to get a good solid dropping and the runny poo is not of much help for a FE although it is better than nothing.

 

[Waterfaery]

Have a necropsy performed by a state lab, send fecal samples to an avian vet, and send food samples to the state agricultural lab. You need a more targeted approach and these test will help identify what is going on and exactly what to treat it with.

Thanks so much.

Yes, I would definitely love a more targeted approach but, unfortunately, the vet situation is appalling here and we don't have agricultural labs here available to the public.

I've been through all of it before and paid hundreds of euro for fecal samples (not cheap like it is in the US) only to have it all be a ridiculous waste of time. The vets sat on the samples for weeks and there was no point in even testing them they were so old. Then they took weeks more to get the results to me which, unsurprisingly, didn't show anything. Then they said it didn't even matter what the results were - the fecal samples were just a box ticking exercise to prove on paper that I actually had a flock of birds. I tried several different vets at the time and it was a nightmare. I got far more help on here. By the time the fecal sample results were even back the birds were all better thanks to this forum and my own common sense and diligence.

I'm afraid I'm stuck with process of elimination.

 

[KsKingBee]

Sorry you have little recourse at this point. Even with $17. exams available to me plus a 25 mile trip to the vet I decided to start doing my own fecal exams. I assume you have thought about it too, perhaps this will motivate you to buy the microscope. I probably do more exams for my neighbors than myself now but when I need one there is no waiting.

 

[Waterfaery]

You have good instincts, follow them. Being so far removed from your situation it is easy to tell you to sacrifice the bird for the good of the flock but that may not end with the information you need right now. I think that continuing the five day treatment will help more than stopping that and starting the probiotics. The probiotics will be slow to show results and the healing of the gut will slow it down further.

I do not know the relationship of giving both T and M at the same time, they may be canceling each other out. You had improvement with the one bird that had the T only and no improvement with the other(s) that had both. My guess is that you are having cocci issues. A key was the bird wanting to be away from the rest of the birds. Can you get a quick fecal exam done? It may be difficult to get a good solid dropping and the runny poo is not of much help for a FE although it is better than nothing.

Thank you.

I gave him his fourth dose of Metronidazole with his Kaytee feed. I will finish the 5 days and then follow with plenty of probiotics. I hope he makes it that far. I'm very concerned that I'm going to lose him.

I did look into drug interactions and didn't find anything about M + T together. That is an interesting possibility. I do feel like so much medication would be sure to make anyone feel sick, though.

The bird that only had T is still noticeably not well. He's a lot more active and is roosting again but his wings are still drooping and he does still separate himself. This will be the third day since his two day Toltrazuril treatment finished. Have you had any that slow to recover from cocci after treatment?

I'm looking into doing my own fecal exams. I've been reading through your thread about it and think it's the way to go. I probably won't get anywhere in time for this situation but it will be good for the future. I have thought about it a lot before now so I'm sad I never did anything about it yet.

 

[Waterfaery]

Sorry you have little recourse at this point. Even with $17. exams available to me plus a 25 mile trip to the vet I decided to start doing my own fecal exams. I assume you have thought about it too, perhaps this will motivate you to buy the microscope. I probably do more exams for my neighbors than myself now but when I need one there is no waiting.

Funny, I just saw this after my last post. Yes, it's definitely the plan now.

 

[Debbie292d]

Sorry you have little recourse at this point. Even with $17. exams available to me plus a 25 mile trip to the vet I decided to start doing my own fecal exams. I assume you have thought about it too, perhaps this will motivate you to buy the microscope. I probably do more exams for my neighbors than myself now but when I need one there is no waiting.

Your name rang a bell with me. I had bookmarked your post months ago as it was helpful to me considering to buy a microscope. Have I? Nope. Maybe Santa!!