Need a No GMO, No Soy, NO PEAS feed. Halp!

[topochico225]

WOW Thanks so much for that chart and the Fertrell PDFs. Very very helpful. I already buy Organic grains from Azure so that's where I'd start.
I only have 8 hens for now.
I'm in extremely rural central/SE Louisiana. Land of GMO soy, GMO corn, GMO sugar cane and highly round-upped, chemically doused, commercial crops. The co-op can't (or won't?) order half decent, healthy, anything.

I cleared and till a small plot to grow winter rye, winter wheat, red clover, alphalfa, and buckwheat. I just chuck it all out there willy nilly as a cover crop to enrich and break up the soil for next years veggie garden, but I'll likely let the hens run occasional raids through it like they do my current veg garden.

I’m in BTR! What co-op do you go to?

 

[rosemarythyme]

I would very much like to say which feeds I've wasted hard earned money on, but I don't want to be scolded for "outing" them on a public forum.
And you missed the part where I said the hens (and the wild critters) won't eat the corn, peas, or dust/mud under any circumstances. Not wet, not soaked, not "fermented" and certainly not dry

If there's feed you're unhappy with, you absolutely should name them or else you're probably going to see the names pop up here.

There's no corn in the Scratch & Peck starter or grower (I do not feed layer so would have to verify that info). You specifically said peas were the issue so yes there's peas but not "50% peas."

There should never be dust or mud in any feed either, that's not the same as the fines that were previously mentioned.

Well nevermind, only just now saw you name the feeds you tried. I wouldn't have made the recommendation for S&P if I'd known in advance that you already tried it out, sorry bout that.

 

[PeepOverlord]

No big thing. I'm new to chicken keeping myself, begining month 20, I believe. I'm not an expert, though my opinions on feed are gaining some weight around here, primarily because I link my sources and encourage others to check my work. I have read a LOT of studies.

Happy to have been at least a little bit helpful. Sort of surprised I wasn't viewed as one of the posters contributing "drama" and opinion. I rub a lot of people the wrong way in print, and more so in person. I don't care, but I am aware of the tendency.

@U_Stormcrow All my life I've been organic farming/gardening and had livestock (incl) chickens. But I'm used to being up north where good food and feed is easy to find. And where Organic and Non GMO aren't strongly frowned upon.
You've been extremely helpful. I'm already on Azure making a shopping list and will contact the Fertrell ppl tomorrow. I have to figure this situation out before I get chicks ordered for spring.
No worries I GET YOU. I appreciate straight to the point. Facts. Truth. Knowledge. I still vy much disagree with the rapeseed tho.
Since this is *my* thread, I'm going to long post. These are collected from various studies (experiments) each is a link:

Canola/Rapeseed not as healthy as you've been led to believe

"The main factor affecting nutrient availability is the hull of the canola seed. The hulls are poorly digested by poultry and dilute the levels of available crude protein and energy. Canola meal also contains nonstarch polysaccharides (NSPs) and glucosinolates, which reduce nutrient availability and break down into toxic aglucons.
The hulls are also a limiting factor in feeding canola meal to poultry because the hulls tend to stick to the inside of the digestive tract. If the digestive tract is torn during processing, the canola hulls can stick to the carcass, causing it to be downgraded."

"Birds fed rapeseed produced smaller eggs
poultry should receive no more than 2% of their diet as rapeseed"

"Fatty haemorrhagic liver syndrome is found in laying hens on diets supplemented with rapeseed products".

"Elevated bile acids in the plasma of laying hens fed rapeseed meal: Laying hens fed a diet containing rapeseed meal (RSM) for 12 weeks had higher bile acid levels than hens fed a control soyabean diet. The incidence of liver haemorrhages was higher. The rapeseed meal diet also produced thyroid hypertrophy and this was greater in the hens that produced tainted eggs."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119300999
"The use of rapeseed decreased egg production, egg weight and daily feed intake;
Livers of laying hens on rapeseed meals and rapeseed oil were studied. Gross lesions in the livers of hens on experimental diets were moderate to severe fatty degeneration, focal necrosis and moderate to severe haemorrhage. Abdominal haemorrhage from livers occurred when extensive necrosis in the form of hepatocyte lysis and some vascular changes were present, suggesting hepatocytic degeneration caused by toxic products or their metabolites present in rapeseed by-products."
https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.934.9225&rep=rep1&type=pdf
"Birds shifted at sexual maturity to rapeseed meal undergo metabolic adjustment which retards the attainment of maximum rate of production and induces cannibalism."



There was only one person hijacking my thread into their own personal soap box.

 

[PeepOverlord]

If there's feed you're unhappy with, you absolutely should name them or else you're probably going to see the names pop up here.

There's no corn in the Scratch & Peck starter or grower (I do not feed layer so would have to verify that info). You specifically said peas were the issue so yes there's peas but not "50% peas."

There should never be dust or mud in any feed either, that's not the same as the fines that were previously mentioned.

@rosemarythyme I posted big pics and Named Names. Too bad I can't post videos of 1. My hens, every wild critter in the county and even a couple random dogs snarfing up the original. No-peas MileFour feeds.
and 2. The month long video of my hens and every crawling, creeping, slithering, flying critter in the county avoiding the SnP like it was a pile of Hazmat.

 

[PeepOverlord]

I’m in BTR! What co-op do you go to?

@topochico225 Point Coupee. When I first went in there and said the words Organic and NonGMO... I got frostbit right out of the place and they all started grumbling to each other as if my UFO was parked out front.

 

[rosemarythyme]

@rosemarythyme I posted big pics and Named Names. Too bad I can't post videos of 1. My hens, every wild critter in the county and even a couple random dogs snarfing up the original. No-peas MileFour feeds.
and 2. The month long video of my hens and every crawling, creeping, slithering, flying critter in the county avoiding the SnP like it was a pile of Hazmat.

Yeah I updated my previous post, as I only saw the list of names after I had posted my response.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@U_Stormcrow All my life I've been organic farming/gardening and had livestock (incl) chickens. But I'm used to being up north where good food and feed is easy to find. And where Organic and Non GMO aren't strongly frowned upon.
You've been extremely helpful. I'm already on Azure making a shopping list and will contact the Fertrell ppl tomorrow. I have to figure this situation out before I get chicks ordered for spring.
No worries I GET YOU. I appreciate straight to the point. Facts. Truth. Knowledge. I still vy much disagree with the rapeseed tho.
Since this is *my* thread, I'm going to long post. These are collected from various studies (experiments) each is a link:

Canola/Rapeseed not as healthy as you've been led to believe

"The main factor affecting nutrient availability is the hull of the canola seed. The hulls are poorly digested by poultry and dilute the levels of available crude protein and energy. Canola meal also contains nonstarch polysaccharides (NSPs) and glucosinolates, which reduce nutrient availability and break down into toxic aglucons.
The hulls are also a limiting factor in feeding canola meal to poultry because the hulls tend to stick to the inside of the digestive tract. If the digestive tract is torn during processing, the canola hulls can stick to the carcass, causing it to be downgraded."

"Birds fed rapeseed produced smaller eggs
poultry should receive no more than 2% of their diet as rapeseed"

"Fatty haemorrhagic liver syndrome is found in laying hens on diets supplemented with rapeseed products".

"Elevated bile acids in the plasma of laying hens fed rapeseed meal: Laying hens fed a diet containing rapeseed meal (RSM) for 12 weeks had higher bile acid levels than hens fed a control soyabean diet. The incidence of liver haemorrhages was higher. The rapeseed meal diet also produced thyroid hypertrophy and this was greater in the hens that produced tainted eggs."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119300999
"The use of rapeseed decreased egg production, egg weight and daily feed intake;
Livers of laying hens on rapeseed meals and rapeseed oil were studied. Gross lesions in the livers of hens on experimental diets were moderate to severe fatty degeneration, focal necrosis and moderate to severe haemorrhage. Abdominal haemorrhage from livers occurred when extensive necrosis in the form of hepatocyte lysis and some vascular changes were present, suggesting hepatocytic degeneration caused by toxic products or their metabolites present in rapeseed by-products."
https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.934.9225&rep=rep1&type=pdf
"Birds shifted at sexual maturity to rapeseed meal undergo metabolic adjustment which retards the attainment of maximum rate of production and induces cannibalism."



There was only one person hijacking my thread into their own personal soap box.

OOOH! Good reading. More thanks than I expected. MUCH appreciated. My personal calculator has "do not exceed 10% of diet" with rapeseed, I may soon be revising that downwards! (Honestly, can't get desired fat levels with more than maybe 4-5%, but even so. Good reading, great thanks!

 

[PeepOverlord]

If there's feed you're unhappy with, you absolutely should name them or else you're probably going to see the names pop up here.

There's no corn in the Scratch & Peck starter or grower (I do not feed layer so would have to verify that info). You specifically said peas were the issue so yes there's peas but not "50% peas."

There should never be dust or mud in any feed either, that's not the same as the fines that were previously mentioned.

Well nevermind, only just now saw you name the feeds you tried. I wouldn't have made the recommendation for S&P if I'd known in advance that you already tried it out, sorry bout that.

@rosemarythyme NP!! I appreciate ANY lead on a feed my ladies can eat. I'd rather have people suggest something twice, or that I already tried, than no help at all.
When it comes to [most] livestock - we eat what they eat. That, and the crazy amount of money I have into these walking egg factories is why I'm so crazy about the feed issue

 

[PeepOverlord]

OOOH! Good reading. More thanks than I expected. MUCH appreciated. My personal calculator has "do not exceed 10% of diet" with rapeseed, I may soon be revising that downwards! (Honestly, can't get desired fat levels with more than maybe 4-5%, but even so. Good reading, great thanks!

@U_Stormcrow Hey maybe I can lend you my old guy neighbor who insists on throwing cat fish heads, tails and guts, leftover dinner bones and gristle, occasional sammiches, cajun sausages, etc over the fence "for the chickens its good for them let them have it".
Gee, can't wait til he starts chucking deer parts over
I had to aim a wifi cam over there so I can run out and try to clean that stuff up before the gargoyles descend on it and it turns into the chicken version of fight club.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I've updated my calculator - not to exceed 2% of feed. Thank you, good reads.

My wife and I don't waste much, but what we do? Goes to the chickens and the goats.