Did they tell you what diseases would require mandatory culling?
-Kathy
-Kathy
Oh My God, The Government Wants to Kill My Chickens (MS)
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- #112
- Sep 12, 2012
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Nope. I have the number for the state's poultry disease specialist. I might actually call her and ask her, because from everything I've read, the only disease that might require mandatory culling is Bird Flu, but I only surmise that because that seems like something that would be implemented nationwide.
As I've read through animal health and husbandry laws, I'm hard pressed to find any mention of diseases where culling is REQUIRED rather than simply recommended.
As I've read through animal health and husbandry laws, I'm hard pressed to find any mention of diseases where culling is REQUIRED rather than simply recommended.
- Mar 1, 2013
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If there is a way around it I wouldn't take the birds to your new place.
This isnt related to MS in this thread, but here's what happens in a very recent bird flu outbreak in China, same thing happened with a Newcastle's disease outbreak in California some years ago: I hope the chinese can contain it.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-12/22/c_132987133.htm
http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/vet/newcastle.htm
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-12/22/c_132987133.htm
http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/vet/newcastle.htm
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The reason for the concern about the diseases is that the poultry market provides a large number of jobs in the US and we export a large amount of poultry, which helps our trade balance and provides even more jobs. But we are fighting other producers to provide these overseas markets. Many countries will use any excuse possible to reduce how much they import from us. For example, China imported about 231,700 tons of chicken feet in 2012. Chicken feet are considered a delicacy there. The US of A used to have a whole lot of that market but China imposed tariffs and such that really cut into our market share. They accused us of dumping but it’s recently been determined we rally were not dumping. Those tariffs should be withdrawn so our farmers can start selling chicken feet to China again.
There are others but China and Russia specifically often use “Your chickens are diseased” to stop all imports until that is cleared up whenever we have certain diseases like avian flu show up. Mad Cow disease is one they use on beef if it shows up. Those diseases showing up hurt American farmers tremendously. We have certain international trade agreements that require us to test, track, report, and treat certain diseases when they show up. If avian flu shows up, every flock, commercial and private, within a certain radius has to be tested and proven free of the disease before that state can start exporting chicken to certain countries again. So a big part of the government concern is that they are trying to protect American farmers and keep their markets open.
Another part of that concern is that your infected flock is a danger to any of your neighbors that have chickens. We are a nation of laws but that state vet probably has some discretion in how rigidly those laws are enforced. The state vet apparently has determined that if you abide by your agreement you are not posing that great a threat to your neighbors. They are not out to get you, they are out to protect your neighbors.
That’s why it’s such a big deal. The export value of US poultry in 2012 was nearly $5.5 billion. That does not include eggs. They are trying to protect those American farmers that can use those sells, not take your backyard flock away. If you want to feel so special that the government is going out of its way to pick on you, go ahead. There are plenty of other people that feel that way but you are not really unless you pose a threat to the US economy and all those jobs.
There are others but China and Russia specifically often use “Your chickens are diseased” to stop all imports until that is cleared up whenever we have certain diseases like avian flu show up. Mad Cow disease is one they use on beef if it shows up. Those diseases showing up hurt American farmers tremendously. We have certain international trade agreements that require us to test, track, report, and treat certain diseases when they show up. If avian flu shows up, every flock, commercial and private, within a certain radius has to be tested and proven free of the disease before that state can start exporting chicken to certain countries again. So a big part of the government concern is that they are trying to protect American farmers and keep their markets open.
Another part of that concern is that your infected flock is a danger to any of your neighbors that have chickens. We are a nation of laws but that state vet probably has some discretion in how rigidly those laws are enforced. The state vet apparently has determined that if you abide by your agreement you are not posing that great a threat to your neighbors. They are not out to get you, they are out to protect your neighbors.
That’s why it’s such a big deal. The export value of US poultry in 2012 was nearly $5.5 billion. That does not include eggs. They are trying to protect those American farmers that can use those sells, not take your backyard flock away. If you want to feel so special that the government is going out of its way to pick on you, go ahead. There are plenty of other people that feel that way but you are not really unless you pose a threat to the US economy and all those jobs.
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- #116
- Sep 12, 2012
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I don't feel special at all. I felt scared. I was confused because from many studies and reports I've read, this disease is already VERY prevalent in commercial operations and really nothing is done about it. That's why I was so confused. Not special. Confused.
I am glad you get to keep your birds, but at some point you may want to seriously consider the implications involved in keeping birds that have the potential to spread these nasty pathogens. Chickens are animals, just like dogs, cats, and other "pets" all animals remain animals no matter how much you escalate them beyond that status. Putting the title "Pet" on a chicken does not make it any more valuable or worthy of living or being treated.
I respect that you have decided to try to keep these birds alive and healthy, and if they stay healthy they will likely live out their days in comfort well kept by your loving care. Just remember that if they do get sick, and it is likely that they will at some point, that you should be kind enough to let them go instead of prolonging their suffering for your own personal needs.
Chickens are food, dogs are guardians, companions, and herders, cats are hunters and sometimes companions etc. As much as we try to pin our love on animals it is not healthy to place them in the same position as another human. It saddens me that you are focused on your own needs without thinking about the other animals close to your flock. Maybe not the chicken farm several miles away, but I am sure there will be other chickens within a mile or so of your birds. Mosquitoes can carry diseases across many miles to chickens that never see each other, a raccoon, skunk or opossum can eat one of your birds and spread the disease to other chickens in its pursuit of its next meal. These pathogens are transferable to others who come visit you and have chickens too.
I know my comment is not going to be a popular one, but I have seen many posts on this site that detail the horrors other chicken owners suffer from the various diseases. Inoculating a tiny flock is tough since the doses are not packed in small vials for flocks of 10 or so and the costs mount the more you try to prevent these diseases from happening. The best thing we can do as responsible chicken keepers is cull those that are sick or directly exposed so as to preserve the health and well being of other flocks. Chickens are easy to replace and it is a sad thing to read the posts of folks who lost their entire flock to a nasty disease. Test those birds, inoculate those birds and above all, don't introduce any more birds to that flock until all of the current ones have died.
I hope your birds live happy healthy productive lives. Good luck.
I respect that you have decided to try to keep these birds alive and healthy, and if they stay healthy they will likely live out their days in comfort well kept by your loving care. Just remember that if they do get sick, and it is likely that they will at some point, that you should be kind enough to let them go instead of prolonging their suffering for your own personal needs.
Chickens are food, dogs are guardians, companions, and herders, cats are hunters and sometimes companions etc. As much as we try to pin our love on animals it is not healthy to place them in the same position as another human. It saddens me that you are focused on your own needs without thinking about the other animals close to your flock. Maybe not the chicken farm several miles away, but I am sure there will be other chickens within a mile or so of your birds. Mosquitoes can carry diseases across many miles to chickens that never see each other, a raccoon, skunk or opossum can eat one of your birds and spread the disease to other chickens in its pursuit of its next meal. These pathogens are transferable to others who come visit you and have chickens too.
I know my comment is not going to be a popular one, but I have seen many posts on this site that detail the horrors other chicken owners suffer from the various diseases. Inoculating a tiny flock is tough since the doses are not packed in small vials for flocks of 10 or so and the costs mount the more you try to prevent these diseases from happening. The best thing we can do as responsible chicken keepers is cull those that are sick or directly exposed so as to preserve the health and well being of other flocks. Chickens are easy to replace and it is a sad thing to read the posts of folks who lost their entire flock to a nasty disease. Test those birds, inoculate those birds and above all, don't introduce any more birds to that flock until all of the current ones have died.
I hope your birds live happy healthy productive lives. Good luck.
- Thread starter
- #118
- Sep 12, 2012
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Cristina--
I totally get what you're saying. I used to work on a farm, and sometimes it's hard to strike the balance between food vs. pet. On the flipside, though, if this disease is SO easily transmitted- by wild animals and songbirds, rats, etc.--then what good is it for me to cull my chickens when the other backyard flocks in my area might unknowingly have the same disease, and the same wild animals, birds, vermin, etc. spreading that disease? What's to say that if I cull my chickens and get a brand new flock, they, too, won't be infected by those outside forces? I think there are two sides to the coin.
The state vet told me that due to the fact that they're in an enclosed area away from main roads, the chance of the disease leaving my flock is very, very, very slim. This is what the NPIP people asserted, as well. The vet did not seem to think that songbirds were as big a vector for the disease as other people seem to think. It seems to me the research is sketchy, at best, regarding transmission and carriers and such for MS/MG. Everyone is still learning about it.
I have never made a habit of inviting people to visit my coop, and if I happen to know I'll be around someone else's chickens, I always wear clean clothes/shoes that I do not wear in my coop and wash my hands/change before I return to my coop. I didn't used to do these things, because I didn't know better, but I tightened my biosecurity back in the spring after the stray chicken incident.
I learn something new every day. I've been doing a lot of reading on MS/MG, and I honestly don't think I'm endangering anyone else's flock. If they do start exhibiting symptoms of the disease, I will do the right thing and cull them. For now, they seem healthy and happy.
ETA: I have already alerted my chicken-keeping friends to this discovery, as well. Lest anyone irresponsibly think I was going to keep people in the dark.
I totally get what you're saying. I used to work on a farm, and sometimes it's hard to strike the balance between food vs. pet. On the flipside, though, if this disease is SO easily transmitted- by wild animals and songbirds, rats, etc.--then what good is it for me to cull my chickens when the other backyard flocks in my area might unknowingly have the same disease, and the same wild animals, birds, vermin, etc. spreading that disease? What's to say that if I cull my chickens and get a brand new flock, they, too, won't be infected by those outside forces? I think there are two sides to the coin.
The state vet told me that due to the fact that they're in an enclosed area away from main roads, the chance of the disease leaving my flock is very, very, very slim. This is what the NPIP people asserted, as well. The vet did not seem to think that songbirds were as big a vector for the disease as other people seem to think. It seems to me the research is sketchy, at best, regarding transmission and carriers and such for MS/MG. Everyone is still learning about it.
I have never made a habit of inviting people to visit my coop, and if I happen to know I'll be around someone else's chickens, I always wear clean clothes/shoes that I do not wear in my coop and wash my hands/change before I return to my coop. I didn't used to do these things, because I didn't know better, but I tightened my biosecurity back in the spring after the stray chicken incident.
I learn something new every day. I've been doing a lot of reading on MS/MG, and I honestly don't think I'm endangering anyone else's flock. If they do start exhibiting symptoms of the disease, I will do the right thing and cull them. For now, they seem healthy and happy.
ETA: I have already alerted my chicken-keeping friends to this discovery, as well. Lest anyone irresponsibly think I was going to keep people in the dark.
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- Oct 28, 2013
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Ok.. just to clarify that regarding resistances..
It's surviving the exposure to a disease- which is how vaccines work and also how resistances are noticed (survivors.) In this case it is MS- a bacteria that spreads easily. If you are treating with antibiotics you aren't really creating a chicken with resistance to ms, you're using an antibiotic to fight it - but if you screw up the antibiotics- you are potentially creating a more antibiotic resistant strain of ms. (Same concept on how MRSA, superweeds, etc. came about.. and also how a genetic mutation that helps resist HIV transmission was discovered.)
Unfortunately- ms passes to wild birds too (wild turkey in particular.)
I looked up a little info on it's viability.. The bacteria only lives a few hours on you (in your nose, on your hair, skin) and some equipment.. 2 days on cotton cloth, up to 3 days on feathers, incubators 3 to 5 days. It can handle freezing, but sensitive to temps. over 103F.
(Thought I'd share that last part in case any have issues like I do with little sparrows & wild turkey.)
The whole thing sucks- and it's not unusual. Not far from me is Mr. Ingram, around here he's the one you turn to to learn about bees.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/illino...santos-roundup-kills-remaining-queens/5336210
Reason I brought that up is I thought you mentioned a commercial production barn was by you. I really wonder if those birds were tested. (Frankly- enough of their birds die daily- are they having a necropsy done?)
It's surviving the exposure to a disease- which is how vaccines work and also how resistances are noticed (survivors.) In this case it is MS- a bacteria that spreads easily. If you are treating with antibiotics you aren't really creating a chicken with resistance to ms, you're using an antibiotic to fight it - but if you screw up the antibiotics- you are potentially creating a more antibiotic resistant strain of ms. (Same concept on how MRSA, superweeds, etc. came about.. and also how a genetic mutation that helps resist HIV transmission was discovered.)
Unfortunately- ms passes to wild birds too (wild turkey in particular.)
I looked up a little info on it's viability.. The bacteria only lives a few hours on you (in your nose, on your hair, skin) and some equipment.. 2 days on cotton cloth, up to 3 days on feathers, incubators 3 to 5 days. It can handle freezing, but sensitive to temps. over 103F.
(Thought I'd share that last part in case any have issues like I do with little sparrows & wild turkey.)
The whole thing sucks- and it's not unusual. Not far from me is Mr. Ingram, around here he's the one you turn to to learn about bees.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/illino...santos-roundup-kills-remaining-queens/5336210
Reason I brought that up is I thought you mentioned a commercial production barn was by you. I really wonder if those birds were tested. (Frankly- enough of their birds die daily- are they having a necropsy done?)
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- #120
- Sep 12, 2012
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See--I mentioned to the vet that wild birds could be a carrier of the disease, and he said that he didn't think that was possible, since chickens are a different species??
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