Old and Rare Breeds

[gjensen]

20? Seams right. I was kind of leaning towards 16. Maybe from the punnet squares in school.

Would it make sense to test that mating in a single season? Lets say a mating or two is better than another. It seams I would rather scrap something vs. feeding for another year before I knew what I had.

Regardless, I need to know what is working or not. I can't imagine getting any better if I do not. If I have a male in with four hens (or eight), I am at a loss as to where what comes from half of the time. I could never be certain.

Where is the problem with my logic?

 

[Lacy Blues]

The Standard describes the results of good breeding.....different folks arrive at the best bird they can in various ways. Double mating is a way to do it and it is generally for color only. The SOP has some difficult to attain goals, but does not ask for anything that is impossible. That would be wrong/unacceptable or whatever one would like to call it. Just about everything that needs to be rewritten has been addressed many years ago. It does change as new breeds are accepted and there are a few quirky things that need to be corrected, but it does not ask for anything that can't be done........it has all been done by breeders. As an example of some of the things that need to be fixed is that the black Asil, Wheaten Shamo males are not recognized for some reasons........things like that......nothing like asking for something that is impossible to create.

You should get one and if you do, read the first 40 pages and you will know a lot more about pure bred chickens than most folks. It tells you how the breeds were made, what the color should be and how the body parts should look, but does not tell you how to breed.....and forget what you used in breeding other animals, as it probably won't work with chickens. This is what causes some confusion amongst people starting in chickens after they have raised and shown other animals successfully.

Walt

Walt, is it within the realm of possibility that these varieties can be accepted without jumping through all the hoops that generally have to be performed?

I ask because of the plight of the Andalusian. I believe that part of the reason they are so rare and people don't want to deal with them is because the APA has opted to NOT recognize the splash and black varieties. There are splash and black accepted for just about every other breed being shown, but not the Andalusian. Have any ideas to the "why" of that situation?

Splash and black are both a necessity at times when you are trying to get a good blue. One cannot show the splash and black varieties, I believe it is one reason people turn away from this bird, oh, I know you can show them but they'll never get anything better than "Best of Variety." I, personally, will not stress my birds for THAT prize.

Just wondering...

 

[Zanna]

20? Seams right. I was kind of leaning towards 16. Maybe from the punnet squares in school.

Would it make sense to test that mating in a single season? Lets say a mating or two is better than another. It seams I would rather scrap something vs. feeding for another year before I knew what I had.

Regardless, I need to know what is working or not. I can't imagine getting any better if I do not. If I have a male in with four hens (or eight), I am at a loss as to where what comes from half of the time. I could never be certain.

Where is the problem with my logic?

I think your logic is right on......... I have 3 roos and 4 hens that I want to test mate this year (BCM). Planning on hatching 25 or so from each single mating, I have 11 possible combinations and am going to try to get through them all this season. Like you, if any combo produces DQ's that one won't be ever used again or culled.

 

[fowlman01]

Walt, is it within the realm of possibility that these varieties can be accepted without jumping through all the hoops that generally have to be performed?

I ask because of the plight of the Andalusian. I believe that part of the reason they are so rare and people don't want to deal with them is because the APA has opted to NOT recognize the splash and black varieties. There are splash and black accepted for just about every other breed being shown, but not the Andalusian. Have any ideas to the "why" of that situation?

Splash and black are both a necessity at times when you are trying to get a good blue. One cannot show the splash and black varieties, I believe it is one reason people turn away from this bird, oh, I know you can show them but they'll never get anything better than "Best of Variety." I, personally, will not stress my birds for THAT prize.

Just wondering...

No one has ever tried to get the blacks or splash into the SOP. It is not easy to get birds into the SOP and you could understand why, but if you have the money and the inclination, it could be done. It tells what is necessary in the SOP itself.
Splash had been a controversial variety for awhile, but the APA now recognizes the splash Modern Game bantam.....so it can be done and there is already a color description for it.

Walt.

 

[saladin]

20? Seams right. I was kind of leaning towards 16. Maybe from the punnet squares in school.

Would it make sense to test that mating in a single season? Lets say a mating or two is better than another. It seams I would rather scrap something vs. feeding for another year before I knew what I had.

Regardless, I need to know what is working or not. I can't imagine getting any better if I do not. If I have a male in with four hens (or eight), I am at a loss as to where what comes from half of the time. I could never be certain.

Where is the problem with my logic?

There is no fault with your logic. However, I will tell you that it isn't at all the way I do it.

I have seen much faster improvement from my version of the Rolling Mating System than anything I've ever done.

 

[neopolitancrazy]

I have seen much faster improvement from my version of the Rolling Mating System than anything I've ever done.

Could you please describe your version of the Rolling Mating System? I would find this very helpful, I am sure.
Thank you,
Angela

 

[Lacy Blues]

There is no fault with your logic. However, I will tell you that it isn't at all the way I do it.

I have seen much faster improvement from my version of the Rolling Mating System than anything I've ever done.

I would like to read about this too.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

20? Seams right. I was kind of leaning towards 16. Maybe from the punnet squares in school.

Would it make sense to test that mating in a single season? Lets say a mating or two is better than another. It seams I would rather scrap something vs. feeding for another year before I knew what I had.

Regardless, I need to know what is working or not. I can't imagine getting any better if I do not. If I have a male in with four hens (or eight), I am at a loss as to where what comes from half of the time. I could never be certain.

Where is the problem with my logic?

I think the best way to know what is what is to trapnest each pen and only hatch those eggs that you can pedigree both parents.
My purposes are different than some, especially for those that show but the results would be the same. Much faster improvement.

I'm tracking, robustness (is that a word?), egg size and production, egg color, bird weight at various ages, SOP stuff like feather color, earlobe color, comb quality, shank and beak color.

 

[gjensen]

Why can't I do both?

I put together a row of pens for single mating. Why can't I work a family or two at a time, using a similar system. The only difference being the females are seperated. Move them all, at once, to these pens. Finish collecting their eggs, and then move them all back together. In the mean time, I can clean the pen and ground for a "fresh start". Then move the other two families to the breeding pens.

I am asking, because I am not settled with all of it. I started going one way, and as I move along with this, my view has evolved. I imagine that will continue. I wish I could go back in time and start over. I would be in better shape now. Saladin, you have seen my start. I intend to add and change a few things this spring. I am one of those people that has to organize it in away that I can make sense of it. That, and stay within my limits. The part I like to forget is my limitations.

 

[gjensen]

I think the best way to know what is what is to trapnest each pen and only hatch those eggs that you can pedigree both parents.
My purposes are different than some, especially for those that show but the results would be the same. Much faster improvement.

I'm tracking, robustness (is that a word?), egg size and production, egg color, bird weight at various ages, SOP stuff like feather color, earlobe color, comb quality, shank and beak color.

I could trap nest, if I would. If I worked at home, I would trapnest. No question.