Pumpkin Hulsey Color Genetics?

[Poultriary]

If you mean the Db gene, I believe you are correct. That is sort of where the discussion let on the new thread. I came to the same conclusion because you would loose the ginger on the body due to the cream (Ig) gene. I asked a breeder from Australia about the photo and he says it would actually be called a Ginger Duckwing - perhaps Silver-Ginger Duckwing would be a better term. Silver Ginger is already used for a variety with the Ginger Red black markings over a silver ground color..

 

[Pinoy Angelfish]

Discussion at the classroom coop, the deep red brown breast color of this silver and his father below is autosomal red according to Henk; no Db.


The "Pumpkin"? father.

 

[Poultriary]

I had this discussion with Henk and some other folks on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/385005971592955/

Db does cause the breast to be autosomal red. But, apparently the Pumpkin gene is different from the Db gene and the Pumpkin shade is not the same as the autosomal red that the Db gene causes to show up in what would otherwise be a black breast. Henk's theory, as I understand it, is that Pumpkin is actually Wheaten color in the male due to a gene that mimics the the Hf gene's effect on color without causing actual hen feathering.

But yes, I had a misperception that Pumpkin was Ginger Red with an additional gene that diluted the Autosomal Red to the Pumpkin shade. The Db gene is apparently completely unnecessary to creating a Pumpkin bird.

 

[Pinoy Angelfish]

I had this discussion with Henk and some other folks on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/385005971592955/

Db does cause the breast to be autosomal red. But, apparently the Pumpkin gene is different from the Db gene and the Pumpkin shade is not the same as the autosomal red that the Db gene causes to show up in what would otherwise be a black breast.

Quote:
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[Poultriary]

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net...720x720/1003223_3470071247277_619425969_n.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3479867572179&set=p.3479867572179&type=1&theater

This is a bird I currently have. Sire was a Silver Duckwing American Game Bantam from show quality lines and the mother was a Splash with a Duckwing Salmon Breast but the "splashes" are rusty orange. I was told by Henk and the FB group moderator,Catherine, that this was



This is a direct quote from Henk on this bird in the Facebook group: "Denis, your first male shows autosomal red on the breast feathers. In my theory he would be a silver."

 

[Henk69]

Attention!

Db might still be in play here.

Db (like Co and other columbian like restrictors) can make the breast of a silver rooster groundcolored instead of black.
Normally that groundcolor is silver (think columbian)
Autosomal red can then express it's redness on the silver breast area.
On a black breast it is less obvious.

Db probably is a better base than other columbian like restrictors. Co is a good suppressor of red.

A henny colored rooster would also lack the black breast if the females with the same genetic make up lack it.

 

[tadkerson]

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net...720x720/1003223_3470071247277_619425969_n.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3479867572179&set=p.3479867572179&type=1&theater

This is a bird I currently have. Sire was a Silver Duckwing American Game Bantam from show quality lines and the mother was a Splash with a Duckwing Salmon Breast but the "splashes" are rusty orange. I was told by Henk and the FB group moderator,Catherine, that this was



This is a direct quote from Henk on this bird in the Facebook group: "Denis, your first male shows autosomal red on the breast feathers. In my theory he would be a silver."

The male in the picture would have to be heterozygous silver/gold. My experience with dark brown and columbian in combination with homozygous silver would produce an almost white bird with some black in the tail. I do not think the bird in question carries dark brown and columbian. Work by Moore et al. indicated one copy of Db on wild type will produce the breast color in the silver male. Moore and his associates believed there was a modifier present that causes the brown breast. It appears to me the male in your picture has a leaky silver color on his breast- it is nothing like the breast color I have seen in my gold/dark brown males that I have produced. I believe he is carrying one Db gene and the unidentified modifier. That modifier could be mahogany or a something similar to mahogany. Kimball when working with wheaten documented a gene he called dark that did the same thing as seen in the picture to the breast of wild type males.



Tim

 

[Pinoy Angelfish]

This is a bird I currently have. Sire was a Silver Duckwing American Game Bantam from show quality lines and the mother was a Splash with a Duckwing Salmon Breast but the "splashes" are rusty orange. I was told by Henk and the FB group moderator,Catherine, that this was


This is a direct quote from Henk on this bird in the Facebook group: "Denis, your first male shows autosomal red on the breast feathers. In my theory he would be a silver."

Originally Posted by Poultriary

Yes this rooster looks like Silver Db Autosomalred with perhaps Pg and Ml causing the breast color not to be completely white.
Is it a Pumpkin? What is a Pumpkin?


Originally Posted By: Muffi at http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92853#Post92853

A Pumpkin is probably the combination of an unidentified dominant mutation Autosomal red + Dun.
Is Db involved? If Autosomal Red replaces black with red brown then no need, i suppose.

This is probably Autosomal red (Ar) without Dun. Which one looks more like a Pumpkin, the above or this below?

 

[Pinoy Angelfish]

I feel as though I got a little insight on the Pumpkin genetics when I purchased two Rocky Top Pumpkin Mini-Games from Rocky Top Game Farm in Mississippi. As with Pumpkin Hulseys, some of the offspring come out "white". Well, I bred the "white" one I got to some oversized red quill American Game Bantams and all of the offspring turned out with dun in the black parts. She isn't white, she is a dun/fawn mutant/sport (which ever terminology you care to use). 100% of her offspring were dun where they would have been black. It had an interesting effect on the red quill pattern.

I could see where some Pumpkins may carry the Dun Gene. I also believe Red Quill to be one of the original parents of the Pumpkin Hulsey. Red Quill is also said to carry the (ig) cream gene. I have also seen Red Quill Dutch bantams that were very close to Pumpkin coloration with Golden orange hackle and saddle and red breast and body.The key may be to cross Wheaten with Red Quill carrying Dun. TShelton54

Quote: Reeder give the genotype of Redquill as e+/e+ s+/s+ Ar+/Ar+ Pg/Pg Db/Db


Red Quill has Autosomal Red If it was crossed to Yellow Birchen carrying Dun then there will be Pumpkin (Ar+/_ Id/_)

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[chickengeorgeto]

For myself I would call the cock in the first photo a blue, more like in an Arkansas Traveler, Minor Blue, or Montgomery Blue. It is certainly not a pumpkin color, or a red quill. Tell you what, if you will inbreed him to his daughters and grand daughters etc and you start getting Pyle colored birds then you will know for certain if he is carrying blue strain blood or not.