Red Jungle Fowl Standard Proposal * Recommendations Are Appreciated *

[cgmccary]

Hey Tommy, my good friend, how are you?

I noticed that you had not put WEIGHTS in your Vietnamese STD (i.e. Cockerel weight, Pullet weight, Cock & hen weights) -- ask your Red Jungle friends the weights--and check yours-- I know you have some of the best stock -- beautiful birds you have as always!

I know you said you were in contact with other breeders of your fowl BUT Are you a member of this forum?: http://backyardchickens.com/index.php

They will have a lot of experienced breeders of the exotic oriental breeds you keep -- and can help you with your standard.

Hope all is well with you, my friend-- Have a Happy & Safe Holidays . . .

Chris in Alabama

 

[NYREDS]

Here's something else to look up: "Delusions of Grandeur".

 

[Icarus Crows]

Hey Tommy,
Picasso said that "action is the foundational key to all success".
Van Gogh was scorned and derided by the critics of his day and died impoverished. Galileo was threatened with burning at the stake by the inquisition for daring to contest the Aristotelian consensus model which held that the sun and all other "heavenly bodies" revolve around the earth. He recanted.
When faced with people (especially young) of true passion and vision, the voices of the most vocal critics tend to be proven obtuse and then forgotten. I say dare to dare,
and use the most combustible criticisms as fuel to your fire!
Rock-on and cheers,
Icarus
P.S.
Take cgmccary's advice. I have found that the most knowledgeable commited people there to be extremly cool and forthcoming.
And don't allow the language to slow your work either. I have a feeling that in the long run you will be more proficient than many native speakers.

 

[TommyVT05]

Quote:
Chris!

Wow, my friend...I have not heard from you in the LONGEST time! HAHA. How have you been? Your birds doing ok?
Didn't hear from you anymore, via e-mail and such so didn't know whats going on. Mr. Hyde does not know my new # either so he must be worried. I should call him tomorrow to say hi and wish him a Merry-X-Mas. Merry X-mas to you too!
Thanks for your advice, I will be sure to look into that forum.

I have been there a couple times before but from some of the threads I read, I though its more about gamecocks and stuff so I backed out. : )

Thank You!!!

Take care and keep in touch

- Tommy

 

[TommyVT05]

Quote:
Icarus,

Wow..., very nice quotes. Thank You. I will take your advice along with Chris's. I will join there asap and address the same question that I have here. Its a long and hard process but I think I can do it regardless of all the put-downs I get. I feel it VERY unnecessary you know, but it happens, its the world, so yeah.
I won't let anybody down, especially myself. Keep my spirit high and focus in one thing will help me reach SUCCESS!!! : )

Merry X-mas

- Tommy

 

[TommyVT05]

I almost forgot...

NYREDS:

Hi, even though I might not know you well, nor vice versa, is all that really necessary???

I mean, its not really helping me at all so something more solid and constructive would be nice

Criticism can only help if used in the right way...

Thanks!

Merry X-mas

- Tommy

 

[Chickndaddy]

While I know next to nothing about Jungle Fowl (I never had any) I do have to point out that your "Standard" has too many loopholes. If your going to set a Standard do it. Don't use words like might be, may have, etc. Either they have the trait to meet the Standard or they do not, which would mean they might be beautiful birds, but they are not the best representation of their breed as per what the Standard states. Does that make sense?

For example: (This is completely made up and I'm not checking standards to reference anything.)

White Java Standard

Cock: Should weigh around 8lbs but might be a little larger or smaller. Males should sport a fairly large comb with 4 - 6 points. Earlobes should be a bright red, but sometimes off color lobes are seen. Obviously the bird should be a white in color. Black feathers occasionally crop up though. Skin should be white, and shanks should be slate with the bottom of the feet being white. They may have off color shanks as well.

Do you see how anyone can interpret that Standard they way they want to? I commend the work that you have done, but you didn't necessarily write a Standard, you just described the breed, variety, or strain in its entirety.

If you are going to use sentences like I did here:

Should weigh around 8lbs but might be a little larger or smaller.

At least say something like "but should not be under 7.4 lbs, or exceed 9.5" and even that isn't really setting a Standard. It allows for too much variation within the breed. I might breed my birds to weigh right at 8 lbs and another breeder could be focusing on another weight entirely. We go to the same show and the judge interprets the Standard to say that any weight is acceptable so neither one of us win, an upstart with a rooster at 7.5 lbs wins.

Even the words fairly large can create unconformity. One judge sees fairly large as one size while other judges and breeders see it all in their own way. Make it standard by saying a fairly large comb standing between 1.75 - 2.25" or something like that.

To me it sounds like you are writing the Standard to not fault any bird. Because you have put the time and energy into raising them in your heart you want them all to be great. And I can admit that I have done the same thing with some of my own birds. If that is not the case then don't pay any attention to me. But do work on standardizing you Standard instead of letting any and every bird meet it.

Hope that helps some.

 

[TommyVT05]

Chickndaddy:

Great! Thanks for explaning it so thoroughly. Very understandable. I will need to fix that soon indeed. I believe I have mentioned somewhere way back when in earlier posts that on one of standard I wrote, it was so brief and that I did not have the chance to come back at it yet.

I will need to soon, of course, to make the necessary changes. I did not try to write it in any way to match my birds but since I got so many inputs, I let that hinder my thinking so I gave it variations instead of one set thing. I need to do that now and use information to collect what I write for my standard and not use it against it.

Made things much more clear.

Thank You Very Much

Merry Christmas

- Tommy

 

[Henk69]

Hi Tommy,

Notice the difference of this thread with the one at the-coop?

I think an entire subspecies of red jungle fowl SHOULD vary as much as possible because in nature this variation ensures it's survival.

In Holland we write a standard like this:

...
Earlobes white, oval in shape.
...

Small errors: red in earlobes, non oval shape
...

Big errors: non white earlobes.
...

etcetera...

HTH

 

[TommyVT05]

Ahhh!!!

I see!!!

Thats a nice way to write it too huh? But then again, if its too much into details like that, people would actually breed towards that from non-jungle fowl related bloods to look like jungle fowls which will be a mess. LOL.

The purpose of the standard is just to serve as a guidance so people can tell apart which subspeicies is which more easily.

I was advised to not go too much into details to discourage wrong-doings if you know what I mean : )

- Tommy

!!!Happy Holidays!!!