Sexing New Hampshire X Delaware - and breeding future generations

[davidmpenning]

I’ve been doing some research, and I like the idea of putting a New Hampshire rooster over Delaware hens in order to have chicks that can be easily sexed. And as long as my NH rooster is doing well, I can keep that trait going for generations!

But at some point I’ll need a new rooster. And my hens will be mostly from that cross - so they won’t be pure Delaware anymore.

So my question is if there’s any way to keep that sexing trait for future generations that all carry the genes of both the NH and Delaware?

Thanks in advance!!

 

[FunClucks]

I'm gonna say no, but I'm not a super expert on this. Folks in the genetics forum would be able to tell you for certain.

 

[LTAY1946]

Usually just the first cross unless some sort of auto sexing genetics comes into play. Maybe some one will come along with a more scientific answer. I have reds and Delaware also. They all free range together and I have hatched but don't know which is what. For my use it matters not.

 

[Ridgerunner]

So my question is if there’s any way to keep that sexing trait for future generations that all carry the genes of both the NH and Delaware?

Not unless you keep one Delaware flock and a separate NH flock and cross birds from those each time. Once a chicken is used to make a sex linked offspring that offspring cannot be used to make the same kind of sex link, at least in the next generation.

If you study the first post in the link below it explains in detail how genetic sex linking works. To make a red sex link the father has to be pure for the recessive gold gene (both genes at that gene pair are gold) and the hen has to have the dominant silver gene. The hen only has one gene at that gene pair, that's why it is a sex linked gene. The father gives one of those recessive gold genes to all of his offspring but the hen only gives her dominant silver gene to her sons. So the boys wind up with one silver and one gold and the girls wind up with a recessive gold. They are not set up genetically to make red sex links.

Sex- linked Information | BackYard Chickens - Learn How to Raise Chickens

This gets a bit more complicated but if you cross the offspring the genes are going to be pretty jumbled. Some pullets in that generation will hatch out with the silver gene and be white. Some of the boys will hatch out with two gold genes and be red. Once again the genetics are lined up correctly for this generation so you can make red sex links again. The logistics of doing this are a bit challenging but it can work. And this only works every other generation.

 

[davidmpenning]

Not unless you keep one Delaware flock and a separate NH flock and cross birds from those each time. Once a chicken is used to make a sex linked offspring that offspring cannot be used to make the same kind of sex link, at least in the next generation.

If you study the first post in the link below it explains in detail how genetic sex linking works. To make a red sex link the father has to be pure for the recessive gold gene (both genes at that gene pair are gold) and the hen has to have the dominant silver gene. The hen only has one gene at that gene pair, that's why it is a sex linked gene. The father gives one of those recessive gold genes to all of his offspring but the hen only gives her dominant silver gene to her sons. So the boys wind up with one silver and one gold and the girls wind up with a recessive gold. They are not set up genetically to make red sex links.

Sex- linked Information | BackYard Chickens - Learn How to Raise Chickens

This gets a bit more complicated but if you cross the offspring the genes are going to be pretty jumbled. Some pullets in that generation will hatch out with the silver gene and be white. Some of the boys will hatch out with two gold genes and be red. Once again the genetics are lined up correctly for this generation so you can make red sex links again. The logistics of doing this are a bit challenging but it can work. And this only works every other generation.

Thanks so much! I thought the successive generations wouldn’t get that trait, but figured I’d ask since I really didn’t know!

 

[SE_Gardener]

F1 sex links can only be produced with a male w/gold gene and female with silver gene. Because layer birds are not selected for any criteria, a breed that has had a silver gene may have been bred out, example ply rock, delaware. The only way you would know is breeding them out but that may not always be discernable sexing because so many red layers often show puffs of white or a few streaks on their feathers. Likewise I've had white plymouth rock with gold hackles... Breeding is more than mating male/female. Unless you are certain of the breed parents lineage would you reliably be able to produce sex linked birds.

 

[EOD Daddy]

IF you reversed the cross Del x NH. The cross would be called and Indian River chicken. Cackle Hatchery use to sell them. I owned some a while back. They were great birds. Calm, and great layers of large to jumbo eggs. If you breed the Indian River those chicks are feather sexable. Chicks from red sexlinked cross might be also?

 

[NatJ]

F1 sex links can only be produced with a male w/gold gene and female with silver gene. Because layer birds are not selected for any criteria, a breed that has had a silver gene may have been bred out, example ply rock, delaware.

Right and wrong.

Yes, you need the male with the gold gene (2 copies of it) and the female with the silver gene (1 copy, because she only has 1 Z chromosome to have the gene on. That's why sexlinks work at all.)

Yes, there is a chance of some breeds not having the silver gene (like your White Plymouth Rocks.)

But no, you do not need to worry about Delawares. The specific color pattern of a Delaware (white with bits of black in the hackles and tail and wing feathers) can ONLY happen when the bird has the silver gene. If they had the gold gene instead, they would be Buff Columbian or red like a Rhode Island Red or something of the sort. Other colors that always have the silver gene are Silver Laced, and Silver Spangled, and Silver Columbian (that's the color of Light Brahma or Light Sussex or Columbian Rocks or Columbian Wyandottes).

Breeding is more than mating male/female. Unless you are certain of the breed parents lineage would you reliably be able to produce sex linked birds.

Actually, you CAN produce sexlinks without knowing the lineage of the parent birds, in many cases. OP's case of Rhode Island Red rooster and Delaware hen is one of the cases where just looking at the parent birds will provide all the information anyone needs.

The father must have two copies of the recessive gene (gold in this case.) Because gold is recessive to silver, any male chicken that shows red or gold (possibly with black) and does not have large amounts of white is CERTAIN to have two copies of the gold gene. It does not matter if he has white or light underfluff, and it does not matter if he has little white streaks on some of his red or gold feathers.

The mother must have one copy of the dominant gene (Silver in this case.) Since a hen only has Z chromosome, she only has one gene for gold or silver. If she shows silver, she cannot also be carrying gold.

If you cannot see gold or silver (example: an all black chicken), then you cannot tell whether it is gold or silver, but you cannot use it for making this kind of sexlinks anyway (because you would not be able to see gold or silver on the chicks either.) Many white chickens have the genes to be black chickens, and then a gene that turns black into white. Those white chickens cannot be used for producing this kind of sexlink either. So you can't use an all-white hen to produce gold/silver sexlinks unless you do know what genes she has (usually by knowing about her parents, or you can do some test matings and work it out that way.) A genetically black hen that has the black diluted by the blue or chocolate or lavender gene, or one that has white barring or white mottling, is also not suitable for producing gold/silver sexlinks (even if you DO know her ancestry).

But a hen with a pattern of silver-and-black is fine, whether you know her ancestry or not (Silver Columbian, Silver Laced, Silver Spangled, and some others.)