Sorry horse people--'nother question

[seminolewind]

Quote:
I know SO MANY people who progress through riding styles to wind up on gaited horses. I haven't gotten there yet, but never say never!

Haha. Well, when you are done working your tail off on riding, training, showing, etc. it's time to get a gaited horse. They are a bit of work in the beginning as to getting the gait just right, but after that, it's just real nice. I just wanted to relax and trail ride.

 

[CountryMom]

It is really sad how so many people over bit to get quick results and look good. In the end the horse has not been taught the basics it needed and now is pushed into working on leverage. Good chance he will become tough in the mouth. Myself and many of the cutting trainers I work with and know use an Oring snaffle or mullet mouth (straight with a direct rein Oring.) And on problem horses that is usually the bit to go back to. Once they learn to give and be soft to a snaffle then you can utilize other curb bits or a bigger "bridle" to fine tune. I also see green riders use a curb to be able to stop a horse. In my opinion if the horse does not have the basics a green rider needs to learn how to ride decent then they either need to send if off to someone to put that on or get a better trained horse. I sugest you find another trainer that can help you properly work and train this baby. Now is the time NOT to make mistakes. Even if the trainer you are using now has been open to your visits and such doesn't mean they know how to train properly and for the health and life of your horse. I forget how long you said this youngin was at the trainers, but I sure wouldn't expect him to be in a curb bit until at least his third year and a whole lot more training.

 

[seminolewind]

Exactly. You should teach with a snaffle, and once you and the horse are doing well with that, getting a good response with very light hands, the curb (chain under jaw) to fine tune, which should be very little hand movement, and a more collected horse. But don't forget to use your body before your hands, because eventually you want your horse to get his cues off of what you do with your body.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Ok, if you want to treat the extra curved metal part in the 'snaffle area' as just a mysterious decorative thingie rather than functional, and call it a curb, sure <shrug>. Certainly the bit pictured is being USED as a curb. They aren't always though(yes I *have* seen western trainers use both sets of reins).

In any case, bottom line it is really not a bright idea to start babies in curbs. Especially not in confusing unclear JOINTED curbs. (As I mentioned before, some people get away with it b/c of especially good instincts and seat, but even *they* would do better in a snaffle or bosal).

A baby is not physically equipped to respond properly to a curb -- he is not balanced or developed enough to relax and the poll and bring the shoulders up, and is often not mentally developed enough either (in terms of his comprehension of what-all the rider is doing). Thus, babies started in curbs quite often develop habits that are fiendishly hard to fix later on. And secondly, as KierBri says, you cannot direct-rein in a curb bit, which means that you are forfeiting the far-and-away best means of introducing the young horse to directional aids (why not just start him in a neckstrap for brakes and NO reins or bit at all, then?)

Note that the traditional PROPER way to start horses who end up wearing curbs -- I'm talking about really old-style *good* cowboy or Spanish training, here -- is to leave the curb bit in the tackroom til the horse has had basic Rider Comprehension installed using something else (bosal, snaffle, etcetera). There is a REASON for that.

Horses LEARN to neckrein, they don't start out that way, and in almost all horses it is a pretty gradual process (it's a harder thing for them to learn than just following a gentle tug on one side or another, which really they're already kind of used to from being led around). The more clearly you can show them what you want, the faster they learn (the leg and seat aids that eventually comprise the bulk of so-called neck-reining are slow to develop, partly because the horse has to learn what you want and partly because it takes a good while til the young horse has enough *balance* to respond the way you want). Gentle quiet direct-reining is a very clear way of showing them what you want and then *introducing* the whole concept of neckreining. Also, until they *have* "gotten" neckreining, it is awfully good to have steering of some sort

It is fatuous to say that jointed snaffles are a harsh bit. No bit is harsher than how it's chosen and fitted for the individual horse and how it's used by the rider; and while a few classes of bits are prohibitively hard not to USE in a harsh fashion, the snaffle SURE isn't one of those!!! Yeah, many people use snaffles badly; just like many people use curbs badly, pelhams badly, hackamores badly, etcetera. It is even quite possible to use a bitless bridle badly and abusively, I've seen it done. So what. BTW, not all snaffles are jointed anyhow.

as far as riding goes, three hours is a very long time for a two year old. i would keep it 10-20 min, certainly under a half. there's a reason everyone is saying "baby". he's still growing, bones, muscles, ligaments, tendons, and brain. he dosen't have the mental capacity to focus that long, he dosen't have the physical developement to carry you that long. he might be very well mannered about it, yet in a few months you're going to be wondering why he's slightly off one day, you might notice he's not so good natured anymore, or you might notice something sooner, bucked shins, hot knees...

Eeep. Oh my gosh. I didn't even notice that part. Yes, please PLEASE do not be doin' that. Especially not with a draft cross!!!!!!! (They may look big and sturdy but their joints actually mature more SLOWLY than many breeds, plus they almost always mature kinda 'oversized' for the size of their leg joints which extra-predisposes them to lameness.)

The reason for starting a 2 yr old, if you feel you must do it, should be to get the concepts in his head, NOT to actually USE them for very long!!!!

Like KierBri says. Ten, fifteen minutes every other day or so (including 'mental breaks'), and no cantering.

You will =SO= regret it, otherwise...

Pat​

 

[miss_thenorth]

Thank you all SOOOO much for your advice and wisdom.

I only want to do what is right for our horse, so all your help is greatly appreciated. I am still very 'green' myself.

10- 15 minutes at a time, and seriously considering a plain old snaffle bit--(have one), switching at an appropriate time.


Again, Thanks!!

 

[Silkie Sue]

Hey,
Did you let Cayla know yet that she shouldn't ride Thunder for that long???
Well, the good news is that Jigs will not be left out.

 

[seminolewind]

Miss North, We were all green at one time. The number one rule with most of us is never put a green rider with a green horse.
That said, I have been thru a million dollars worth of lessons over 24 years. The most important ones were from my dressage trainers. They taught me how to ride properly, by "speaking" the horse's language so that the horse understands what you want.
Most people see dressage as a certain type of riding. It is not unless you go on to advanced levels. The first few years of dressage is about basic training and forming a partnership that you will both enjoy. All green horses and riders should learn the basics if they want a true partnership with their horse. Then you can move on to any dicipline you want, and you and your horse will have a easier time with it, (western, trail, jumping, etc.)
I strongly suggest you find a dressage instructor for learning solid basics, and go from there. There is a big difference between reading and lessons.
I think you want to do the best you can with your new horse, or you would not be posting questions. I think you'll do real well.

 

[bluerose]

Frankly with a 2yo draft cross I would be riding once or twice a week, IF THAT, and doing groundwork another day or two a week (NO LUNGING) and having him turned out the rest of the time. (I would personally never start a baby before 3yo except to sit on him a few times.)

I don't think he'll be physically mature until 5 or 6- this is the reality with drafts- and you can set him up for a lifetime of issues now if you push too hard.

Don't go buying an expensive saddle either- you'll need a new one before long. Not to say the
saddle shouldn't fit...

I know someone who takes long yearling Shires on many hour trail rides on difficult terrain. They are all lame to some degree and so poorly muscled- at that point they are using all their calories to grow, not to exercise. I feel bad for every one of them. I think she has one who is somewhat sound and older (mid teens)... of many.

bits are the last of your problems if you have a young draft cross being ridden regularly...