The Ameraucana Thread: Where everything and anything about the breed can be discussed (APA, Non-Stan

[K Epp]

Thx for the info. I was given these boys right after Christmas. They are both sweeties and I wouldn't take anything for them. The girl who gave them to me got them as older chicks and wound up with to many roos so you are probably right. I don't know that I have any seriouse breeders around me. Everything that lays a colored egg is called a Ameraucana. I hope I get a blue egg from one of my EE girls and plan to use these boys with Wellsumers that I have ordered to get olive eggs.

 

[heritagehabitatfarms]

some lines of black Ameraucana are based of E/R and carry birchen and/or red... so when u breed to blacks and or blue to black you can come up with a bird with white/silver or red in there hackel and saddle or wing bow feathers... this is a cull and is considered an EE...

now i don't really agree with that but that is they way the club wants it... if u don't agree the best way to change it is to join the club and vote!!!

"I have not been able to wrap my head around the fact that breeding a purebred Ameraucana to a purebred Ameraucana can result in an Easter Egger. "
Find me a case where that has happened, please. Thanks!

 

[heritagehabitatfarms]

the 50% number has nothing to do with the Ameraucana Club that is the APA standard for a bird to be a breed... its berried somewhere in the 1st 40 pages of your SOP book... i just got my SOP book 2 weeks ago and have not had much time to read it all yet...

So it seems they agree that an Ameraucana can be an Easter Egger

I imagine they are hoping to up that 50% by removing the "non-standards" from the breeding pool. The easiest way to do that is to call them something OTHER than Ameraucana. There can't be an APA Easter Egger breed until there is a repeatable process to breed them and know that you will get what you EXPECT to get (not withstanding that 50% Ameraucana thing). But EEs can be any breed crossed with any other breed as long as there is some Araucana or Ameraucana showing up in some fashion - beard, muff, blue or green eggs.

 

[heritagehabitatfarms]

how to get a new breed in the standard...

2 cocks 2 hens 2 cockerels 2 pullets have to be shown at 2 APA sanctioned shows for 2 years (4 shows total) (this can be done by one person with the same birds if u want to) (tho the second year you would have to have new pullets and cockerels as the ones from the year before would be to old)

u have to then submit the breed for approval to the APA... with that form u will have to have the fee (i think its 150$) and an affidavit from 5 breeders saying that they have been breeding this breed for 5 years... u have to have a purposed standard and it has to be accepted by the standard comity as written or they might suggest changes to it to line up with existing standards...

once the APA has accepted the request the club and the APA will set a qualifying meet... it has to be a major show and located where as many as possible breeders can come to it...

then on show day you have to have 50 total birds that meet your proposed standard (no DQ's) and that 50 has to include 2 cocks 2 hens 2 cockerels 2 pullets each shown by 2 different breeders... the rest of the 50 can all come from one person or from 20 ppl with just a couple birds each...

the judge (chosen by the APA) will judge them and see if he will recommend them for acceptance or not (the Black Copper Marans where not accepted there 1st time around) then the full APA board has to meet and vote to accept them and your in!!!

so if you create a new breed it will take a minimum of 6 years to get them in the SOP...

this is allot to remember off hand so don't kill me if i forgot something lol

Elias

 

[TW1Kell]

Jerryse; It's fantastic to have your input in all of this. I feel honored and hope to learn even more from having you here. I have already learned from you, and haven't read any more than what probably took you 2 minutes to write. I read something on a page (that I can't find, now) that says the Auracauna was not used in creating the Amie; is that true, or false? I am somewhat confused. I really wish that I could find that article, tho it doesn't really matter. It just confuses me, and muddies the water. The main thing is keewping the breed alive, but pure breeding isn't totally necessary for yard pets, imo.

Judged by the Club pics of SoP: I have 2 White Females, a Silver Male, and 3 Wheaten Males. I also have a Silver Female that has the silver neck coloring over her entire body, and was told that she would be considered a Silver, by standard. Then I am told by another breeder that none of their combs are perfect, so...EE's. That is the confusing thing about Amies. No one seems to say the same thing. The Silver Female and the Silver Male gave me a Silver Hen with no beard, that made the 2nd breeder tell me that ALL of my Amies are EE's, because they threw a chick with no beard. Is the mud appearing clearer, at this point? How does one determine what you call what, if the members of the Club (OH! These guys claimed to be Amie Club members. I didn't ask for credentials) members can't even decide on the same thing? That is why I haven't joined the club, to be honest. Then, I saw the smack around people were getting in the Amie thread, and I haven't returned to it, because I don't want my gang all made fun of. I can have fun in the EE thread (and, now, here) and not be made to feel bad. Enough of that, tho. it sounds like sour grapes, and I didn't mean to start a bashing. I apologize for that appearance.

As for the creation of a new breed; while it sounds thrilling to actually "create" a breed, or breed color, I would not presume to be capable of that, and just want to try to breed the birds that I have mentioned. I have been gathering prospective birds with the traits that I am aiming towards, and have them all to adult stage, so this is the year that it all starts, I hope! (crossing my fingers and watching for pesky varmints!)

On the topic of breeding 2 Amies and getting an EE; that is exactly what I feel that I have been told that I did, by breeder #2, above. Sooo...I still feed 'em, I still put the ones that I want mixed together in the same tractor, and let the rest run around grabbin' what they can find and caring for the injured ones. I don't cull, except for the fact that I give Roos away, when I get too many. I might even catch flak for that from purists, but some people just want a Roo in with their egg-layers, for the protection aspect. I have 2 ladies waiting for "Guard Roos", now. They aren't going to hatch eggs, they just want a Roo to guard over the girls.

WOW! That was long-winded, eh?

 

[Outrun Acres]

Jerryse; It's fantastic to have your input in all of this. I feel honored and hope to learn even more from having you here. I have already learned from you, and haven't read any more than what probably took you 2 minutes to write. I read something on a page (that I can't find, now) that says the Auracauna was not used in creating the Amie; is that true, or false? I am somewhat confused. I really wish that I could find that article, tho it doesn't really matter. It just confuses me, and muddies the water. The main thing is keewping the breed alive, but pure breeding isn't totally necessary for yard pets, imo.

Judged by the Club pics of SoP: I have 2 White Females, a Silver Male, and 3 Wheaten Males. I also have a Silver Female that has the silver neck coloring over her entire body, and was told that she would be considered a Silver, by standard. Then I am told by another breeder that none of their combs are perfect, so...EE's. That is the confusing thing about Amies. No one seems to say the same thing. The Silver Female and the Silver Male gave me a Silver Hen with no beard, that made the 2nd breeder tell me that ALL of my Amies are EE's, because they threw a chick with no beard. Is the mud appearing clearer, at this point? How does one determine what you call what, if the members of the Club (OH! These guys claimed to be Amie Club members. I didn't ask for credentials) members can't even decide on the same thing? That is why I haven't joined the club, to be honest. Then, I saw the smack around people were getting in the Amie thread, and I haven't returned to it, because I don't want my gang all made fun of. I can have fun in the EE thread (and, now, here) and not be made to feel bad. Enough of that, tho. it sounds like sour grapes, and I didn't mean to start a bashing. I apologize for that appearance.

As for the creation of a new breed; while it sounds thrilling to actually "create" a breed, or breed color, I would not presume to be capable of that, and just want to try to breed the birds that I have mentioned. I have been gathering prospective birds with the traits that I am aiming towards, and have them all to adult stage, so this is the year that it all starts, I hope! (crossing my fingers and watching for pesky varmints!)

On the topic of breeding 2 Amies and getting an EE; that is exactly what I feel that I have been told that I did, by breeder #2, above. Sooo...I still feed 'em, I still put the ones that I want mixed together in the same tractor, and let the rest run around grabbin' what they can find and caring for the injured ones. I don't cull, except for the fact that I give Roos away, when I get too many. I might even catch flak for that from purists, but some people just want a Roo in with their egg-layers, for the protection aspect. I have 2 ladies waiting for "Guard Roos", now. They aren't going to hatch eggs, they just want a Roo to guard over the girls.

WOW! That was long-winded, eh?

Do you have any pictures of your birds you could post? I think you will receive a friendly knowlegable critique here .

 

[Outrun Acres]

how to get a new breed in the standard...

2 cocks 2 hens 2 cockerels 2 pullets have to be shown at 2 APA sanctioned shows for 2 years (4 shows total) (this can be done by one person with the same birds if u want to) (tho the second year you would have to have new pullets and cockerels as the ones from the year before would be to old)

u have to then submit the breed for approval to the APA... with that form u will have to have the fee (i think its 150$) and an affidavit from 5 breeders saying that they have been breeding this breed for 5 years... u have to have a purposed standard and it has to be accepted by the standard comity as written or they might suggest changes to it to line up with existing standards...

once the APA has accepted the request the club and the APA will set a qualifying meet... it has to be a major show and located where as many as possible breeders can come to it...

then on show day you have to have 50 total birds that meet your proposed standard (no DQ's) and that 50 has to include 2 cocks 2 hens 2 cockerels 2 pullets each shown by 2 different breeders... the rest of the 50 can all come from one person or from 20 ppl with just a couple birds each...

the judge (chosen by the APA) will judge them and see if he will recommend them for acceptance or not (the Black Copper Marans where not accepted there 1st time around) then the full APA board has to meet and vote to accept them and your in!!!

so if you create a new breed it will take a minimum of 6 years to get them in the SOP...

this is allot to remember off hand so don't kill me if i forgot something lol

Elias

Oh my goodness. I had no idea it was such a long process. I guess you proabably need 6 years of true breeding to prove that the birds are indeed a new color that should be added to the APA standard for a specific breed. It's all very interesting. Thank you for posting. You know 10x more than I do about any of this and it's impressive that you were able to pull it off the top of your head. So to really attempt to get a new color approved you need a large group of breeders to come together with the same goals in mind.

 

[Outrun Acres]

some lines of black Ameraucana are based of E/R and carry birchen and/or red... so when u breed to blacks and or blue to black you can come up with a bird with white/silver or red in there hackel and saddle or wing bow feathers... this is a cull and is considered an EE...

now i don't really agree with that but that is they way the club wants it... if u don't agree the best way to change it is to join the club and vote!!!

Couldn't you argue that the two Ameraucanas used are not of very good quality if there is a high probability of them throwing offspring of that color? Would you still want to use those birds for breeding if a lot of heterozygous recessive traits started showing up?

 

[unkadan]

Oh my goodness. I had no idea it was such a long process. I guess you proabably need 6 years of true breeding to prove that the birds are indeed a new color that should be added to the APA standard for a specific breed. It's all very interesting. Thank you for posting. You know 10x more than I do about any of this and it's impressive that you were able to pull it off the top of your head. So to really attempt to get a new color approved you need a large group of breeders to come together with the same goals in mind.

I've actually read from a much respected breeder it's more like 10 years and 10's of thousands of dollars in stock, feed, raising hundreds of birds per year,, to get this done,then you need to find at minimum 6 other folks with the resources, desire, and "sticktoitiveness",,,, he is also one of the fellows that helped found the club,,,,,,

 

[Outrun Acres]

Here are some pictures of one of my friends project birds. She breeds to try to create interesting new colors. Nothing serious, for her it's just some backyard fun. She was overrun with chickens and asked me if I could take a couple. She think said these came from a wheaton or a blue/wheaton hen crossed with a buff silkie rooster. They are still young. About 8-10 weeks old. She said both parents are purebreds. I really need to get some books on genetics in regards to color for chickens. I know blue doesn't breed true. What is the genotype for blue?