Viable treatment for Marek's Disease.

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Like most backyard chickens keeps, it has been a bit of a disappointment to find out how much misinformation about chicken keeping there is out there.

I love my girls and I weep openly every time I lose one. My learning years have been harsh and heartbreaking, but my refusal to accept culling being an only option has been fruitful. I hope what I have recently discovered proves useful.

I was losing chickens. They'd be fine one day and dead the next. I have a rotating regimen of worming, pest control, protazoa abatement and bi-weekly, hands on exams. Still, fine one day, dead the next.

Like a good chook mom, all my girls are vaccinated. Turns out, that may not be so good. I recently read on BYC that the Marek's vaccine really does nothing useful. It does not prevent the transmission or contracting the virus, nor does it prevent the development of the disease. (Having the virus or the disease are 2 different things).

All the vaccine does is suppress symptoms. So if your chooks have the virus and develop the disease, they pretty much die without you knowing what killed them.

Every article I had read up to that point said there is no cure, no treatment, the most humane thing you can do is cull the bird to keep them from an agonizing death.

Well, I don't accept that. Marek's is a virus. Viruses have treatments. So I went hunting. Turns out that not only am I right, I'm not the only one giving the traditional data side-eye.

I found several clinical studies and a white paper out of China discussing several chicken viruses and the use of Chinese Skullcap. You can read two of the clinical studies on poultrydmv.org.

It basically rolled down to the herb Having the ability to shut the virus off, returning it to its dormant stage. They tested it with success on Marek's, Avian Flu and Mycoplasma Gallisepticum a/k/a Bubbleye (CRD).

A compilation of this single symptoms my chickens were exhibiting pointed to Marek's Disease. One had wing paralysis, two were limping, egg production was down, pale combs, ruffled feathers and weight loss was abundant and my boss hen, a Silver Wyandotte named Rogue, developed a cataract, she was going blind. I thought they were all soon to be dead.

I read on. 80% of fowl carry the Marek's virus. It mutates and can become quite deadly. But for the most part, it remains dormant. Birds carrying the virus, spread the virus.

So if 80% of fowl carry the virus and the standard recommendation is to cull the birds, wouldn't that wipe out the fowl population? It seems a tad counter productive. Ya think?

I found the clinical studies and poultrydmv.org confirmed my findings of 425mg, one time daily but no length of treatment is given. I went with 3 days.

Rouge was first in line. 425mg for 3 days. Then I decided to repeat in a week.

That was a month ago. Rogue is returning to normal. No longer a complacent lump, she's making rounds and kicking cloacas.

My other birds are recovering. I'm still treating the non-symptomatic birds.

I hope this is helpful.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8463782/

Antiviral effect of baicalin on Marek's disease virus in CEF cells:

https://doi.org/10.1186/s12917-020-02595-x

Baicalin (Scutellaria baicalensis) extract

100-200 mg/kg of diet

F Yang et al., 2020; Y Zhou et al., 2019; B Yin et al., 2021; M Bao et al., 2022; Z Hu et al., 2022

 

[AidKD]

Wow! This definitely needs to be circulated so others can also test it out! Great job on your research! The only way that we're gonna find true cures and stop going by statistics is only by us backyard, hands-on poultry keepers who really know what we're talking about. Not by a scientist in a lab who's job is to find a cover-up for serious diseases that really have serious cures.

 

[Razzlefrazzle]

I recently read on BYC that the Marek's vaccine really does nothing useful.

Be careful about believing everything you read here on BYC (and on the internet in general). A lot of misinformation out there intentionally or not. Unless you consider frequently preventing death "nothing useful" that statement about the Marek's vaccine is just plain false. The vaccine prepares the body's immune system so it can fight the virus quickly when exposed thereby preventing the development of the disease. No, the vaccine is not perfect, because there are many strains and virus is always changing, but it's a lot better than nothing.

Also if your birds are "fine one day, dead the next" that is likely due to another disease like fatty liver syndrome, which does cause sudden death, rather than Marek's.

 

[BastyPutt]

I don't believe it is misinformation or a lack of desire to find a cure - but a lack of resources.

To the general public, a chicken is a pretty expendable animal. For those who don't have them, they wouldn't understand why you would necessarily want to try and save something that isn't really "a pet" and has a generally short life span.

This is why this site even exists. When you have a sick dog, you take it to a vet. When you have a sick chicken - you have to search for miles to find a vet who isn't necessarily an expert - who will generally tell you culling is the answer because again, people don't understand chickens. Instead, you see dozens of posts here a day seeking medical help for their ailing birds.

Chinese skullcap is an herbal antiviral with quite a bit of research done regarding its healing properties on humans. The general consensus is that it SLOWS progression of a virus, but won't eliminate it. Meaning the chicken will ultimately die the agonizing, slow death that you have mentioned here, but it may not happen right away. Not to mention, there are multiple different types of Mareks, with ocular Mareks (what I would suspect in Rouge) is on the lower end of the mortality scale, but still deadly.

Anyone who has had chickens for long enough has watched one wither away and die. I am certainly no exception. I am all about treating an animal to an extent, until I believe the treatments are being administered because I am feeling sad or emotional about the animal dying. This is when culling or putting and animal down becomes the only treatment they deserve.

And to the vaccines, just as in humans, it's a choice for the owner to make. I personally have never advocated for them and believe a natural immunity can be developed by a generational flock, but if at the least a vaccine brings a peace of mind to folks, I would encourage them to do what they see fit for their birds.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Be careful about believing everything you read here on BYC (and on the internet in general). A lot of misinformation out there intentionally or not. Unless you consider frequently preventing death "nothing useful" that statement about the Marek's vaccine is just plain false. The vaccine prepares the body's immune system so it can fight the virus quickly when exposed thereby preventing the development of the disease. No, the vaccine is not perfect, because there are many strains and virus is always changing, but it's a lot better than nothing.

Also if your birds are "fine one day, dead the next" that is likely due to another disease like fatty liver syndrome, which does cause sudden death, rather than Marek's.

From what I read, it does NOT prepare the immune system for anything. It suppresses symptoms, mainly it prevents the tumors. But the disease causes organ failure, so liver failure is not impossible.

I research and read clinical studies, white papers. BYC is great for diagnosis, and sometimes leads to run

Here's the beginning of my rabbit hole. See where it leads you:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/scienc...gainst Marek's disease,virus that is that hot.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

I don't believe it is misinformation or a lack of desire to find a cure - but a lack of resources.

To the general public, a chicken is a pretty expendable animal. For those who don't have them, they wouldn't understand why you would necessarily want to try and save something that isn't really "a pet" and has a generally short life span.

This is why this site even exists. When you have a sick dog, you take it to a vet. When you have a sick chicken - you have to search for miles to find a vet who isn't necessarily an expert - who will generally tell you culling is the answer because again, people don't understand chickens. Instead, you see dozens of posts here a day seeking medical help for their ailing birds.

Chinese skullcap is an herbal antiviral with quite a bit of research done regarding its healing properties on humans. The general consensus is that it SLOWS progression of a virus, but won't eliminate it. Meaning the chicken will ultimately die the agonizing, slow death that you have mentioned here, but it may not happen right away. Not to mention, there are multiple different types of Mareks, with ocular Mareks (what I would suspect in Rouge) is on the lower end of the mortality scale, but still deadly.

Anyone who has had chickens for long enough has watched one wither away and die. I am certainly no exception. I am all about treating an animal to an extent, until I believe the treatments are being administered because I am feeling sad or emotional about the animal dying. This is when culling or putting and animal down becomes the only treatment they deserve.

And to the vaccines, just as in humans, it's a choice for the owner to make. I personally have never advocated for them and believe a natural immunity can be developed by a generational flock, but if at the least a vaccine brings a peace of mind to folks, I would encourage them to do what they see fit for their birds.

According to the clinical study, Chinese Skullcap sends the virus into a dormant or latent stage. Viruses don't replicate during latent stage. They don't destroy. They are still there, but your bird stops dying.

This one is a little more Layman:

https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-020-02595-x

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Wow! This definitely needs to be circulated so others can also test it out! Great job on your research! The only way that we're gonna find true cures and stop going by statistics is only by us backyard, hands-on poultry keepers who really know what we're talking about. Not by a scientist in a lab who's job is to find a cover-up for serious diseases that really have serious cures.

It's NOT a cure. It's a treatment. The virus is still there and still alive, it's just sleeping so to speak.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

I don't believe it is misinformation or a lack of desire to find a cure - but a lack of resources.

To the general public, a chicken is a pretty expendable animal. For those who don't have them, they wouldn't understand why you would necessarily want to try and save something that isn't really "a pet" and has a generally short life span.

This is why this site even exists. When you have a sick dog, you take it to a vet. When you have a sick chicken - you have to search for miles to find a vet who isn't necessarily an expert - who will generally tell you culling is the answer because again, people don't understand chickens. Instead, you see dozens of posts here a day seeking medical help for their ailing birds.

Chinese skullcap is an herbal antiviral with quite a bit of research done regarding its healing properties on humans. The general consensus is that it SLOWS progression of a virus, but won't eliminate it. Meaning the chicken will ultimately die the agonizing, slow death that you have mentioned here, but it may not happen right away. Not to mention, there are multiple different types of Mareks, with ocular Mareks (what I would suspect in Rouge) is on the lower end of the mortality scale, but still deadly.

Anyone who has had chickens for long enough has watched one wither away and die. I am certainly no exception. I am all about treating an animal to an extent, until I believe the treatments are being administered because I am feeling sad or emotional about the animal dying. This is when culling or putting and animal down becomes the only treatment they deserve.

And to the vaccines, just as in humans, it's a choice for the owner to make. I personally have never advocated for them and believe a natural immunity can be developed by a generational flock, but if at the least a vaccine brings a peace of mind to folks, I would encourage them to do what they see fit for their birds.

I believe your correct about the type of Marek's Rogue contracted. Several weeks ago I found a dead bird in my yard. One eye was completely grayed out.


Getting all my girls vaccinated just gave me a false sense of security. Rogue is fully vaccinated.

 

[AidKD]

It's NOT a cure. It's a treatment. The virus is still there and still alive, it's just sleeping so to speak.

Yes, that is what I meant.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Like most backyard chickens keeps, it has been a bit of a disappointment to find out how much misinformation about chicken keeping there is out there.

I love my girls and I weep openly every time I lose one. My learning years have been harsh and heartbreaking, but my refusal to accept culling being an only option has been fruitful. I hope what I have recently discovered proves useful.

I was losing chickens. They'd be fine one day and dead the next. I have a rotating regimen of worming, pest control, protazoa abatement and bi-weekly, hands on exams. Still, fine one day, dead the next.

Like a good chook mom, all my girls are vaccinated. Turns out, that may not be so good. I recently read on BYC that the Marek's vaccine really does nothing useful. It does not prevent the transmission or contracting the virus, nor does it prevent the development of the disease. (Having the virus or the disease are 2 different things).

All the vaccine does is suppress symptoms. So if your chooks have the virus and develop the disease, they pretty much die without you knowing what killed them.

Every article I had read up to that point said there is no cure, no treatment, the most humane thing you can do is cull the bird to keep them from an agonizing death.

Well, I don't accept that. Marek's is a virus. Viruses have treatments. So I went hunting. Turns out that not only am I right, I'm not the only one giving the traditional data side-eye.

I found several clinical studies and a white paper out of China discussing several chicken viruses and the use of Chinese Skullcap. You can read two of the clinical studies on poultrydmv.org.

It basically rolled down to the herb Having the ability to shut the virus off, returning it to its dormant stage. They tested it with success on Marek's, Avian Flu and Mycoplasma Gallisepticum a/k/a Bubbleye (CRD).

A compilation of this single symptoms my chickens were exhibiting pointed to Marek's Disease. One had wing paralysis, two were limping, egg production was down, pale combs, ruffled feathers and weight loss was abundant and my boss hen, a Silver Wyandotte named Rogue, developed a cataract, she was going blind. I thought they were all soon to be dead.

I read on. 80% of fowl carry the Marek's virus. It mutates and can become quite deadly. But for the most part, it remains dormant. Birds carrying the virus, spread the virus.

So if 80% of fowl carry the virus and the standard recommendation is to cull the birds, wouldn't that wipe out the fowl population? It seems a tad counter productive. Ya think?

I found the clinical studies and poultrydmv.org confirmed my findings of 425mg, one time daily but no length of treatment is given. I went with 3 days.

Rouge was first in line. 425mg for 3 days. Then I decided to repeat in a week.

That was a month ago. Rogue is returning to normal. No longer a complacent lump, she's making rounds and kicking cloacas.

My other birds are recovering. I'm still treating the non-symptomatic birds.

I hope this is helpful.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8463782/

Antiviral effect of baicalin on Marek's disease virus in CEF cells:

https://doi.org/10.1186/s12917-020-02595-x

Baicalin (Scutellaria baicalensis) extract

100-200 mg/kg of diet

F Yang et al., 2020; Y Zhou et al., 2019; B Yin et al., 2021; M Bao et al., 2022; Z Hu et al., 2022

Update: Other than adding links to research sources, I did not plan to make updates to this. However, while continuing to research and rereading prior research bases off comments, I decided that after initial dosing, a short term regimen might be necessary. The studies indicate an effectiveness decline after 96 hours (4 days). I thought it has been exactly 4 days since I gave her the 1 week follow up. So I dosed her and gave her an exam.



She's still thin, but she eats. She's still off lay, pair that with vision problems from the blind eye, a lesser appetite is expected. She's no longer losing feathers. Comb is still pale.



Here's the notable event. The gray scale on her eye is almost cleared and the cataract has shrunk to a pinpoint. I am shocked. Like 'No REALLY!'. How is that even possible? There is still a small area of gray scale on her pupil and her iris is no longer exactly gray. It was like gray/colorless but now it has a bit of orange tint (the original color). And she's tracking with that eye! Ya'll, I thought blindness was one of the things that didn't resolve. She has a whole special needs apartment setup because I thought it was permanent.