ZONE 9 and FLORIDA GARDENING

[ljseabreeze]

I miss the seasons in Canada the most, the changing leaves and wearing sweaters. As much as I love gardening the winter was a nice break to do other things.

I love being able to eat something from the garden every day of the year. We can grow such a huge variety of fruits here it is really great. Today we have loquats, oranges, lemons, limes, sugar cane, bananas, green beans, kale, lettuce, strawberries, raspberries and honey from our hives that is ready to eat.

 

[Kikiriki]

I miss the seasons in Canada the most, the changing leaves and wearing sweaters.  As much as I love gardening the winter was a nice break to do other things.  

I love being able to eat something from the garden every day of the year.  We can grow such a huge variety of fruits here it is really great. Today we have loquats, oranges, lemons, limes, sugar cane, bananas, green beans, kale, lettuce, strawberries, raspberries and honey from our hives that is ready to eat.

Yes! Wearing sweaters (and boots!) is not a lot of fun when the daytime hours are sure to warm up from when one dressed in the morning... And scarves! I miss scarves! People look at me like I am nuts for having one even on the days I can get away with it.

I am really surprised how much you still have: My loquats finished 2 months ago! My orange finished long ago, and the last of the grapefruit is dropping like yellow bombs: the dogs will not hang out under that tree! (well, me neither!) Lettuce would never grow now and even my mustard plant has bolted already (1 volunteered this spring. I discovered no one much cared for it last year). My green beans are doing great: I tried Italian pole beans this year and they were slow to start producing, but oh my are they wonderful! Sweeter than other green beans I have had.

We had a very strange sort of double spring this year: one was very early. The citrus bloomed and set fruit. Then it got cold and warm again and it all bloomed again, setting more fruit. I think it will be a very hot summer, though, from how it feels already...

I wish I were a bit further north, but I do not miss 20 degrees below zero one bit.Two winters of that and I dashed away from upstate NY... I seriously do not know how people survive in that deep cold!

 

[Kikiriki]

I subscribe to a youtube channel called "growing your greens". The guy, John, does all kinds of posts and he recently took a trip to Florida and posted about places he visited, like groves and farms. He talked in one about a vining cherry tomato called "everglades" which is actually native to south Florida and does well in Zones 9 and 10. I asked my mom if she had ever heard of them and if she would mind looking for them at a local nursery she was going to that day: well, she forgot about it, but then looked them up on the internet later. She ordered a pack of 100 seeds! don't you just love mothers??

They are supposed to have very small fruits, but a whole lot of them. The vines grow 10 to 15 feet, so they need support. A master gardner who sells the seeds recommends burying the plant as it grows up to the uppermost leaves until at least a foot of stem is buried so it develops more root system to support all that top growth. She also prunes the plants to remove suckers so it gets lots of light and air circulation.

I have just had the worst luck with tomatoes, so I am really hoping this will do better than others I have tried. I even tried the Arkansas Traveler and Mortgage Lifters which are both supposed to be heat tolerant. All my tomatoes this year were purchased as plants because I missed my fall planting: my dad became ill and passed away very rapidly...I was not thinking about gardening at all... Anyway, those purchased plants all got the powdery white mildew and only one survived. I am hoping this Everglades variety is more resistant to it since it has evolved in this climate.

We spend a fortune on crappy store bought tomatoes, so I really really want to have a reliable source here in the yard! I also really want my vegetables to be free of pesticides and fungicides and to actually have some flavor!

 

[Kikiriki]

Well, one year I had a huge planting of cucumbers (another veggie we spend a fortune to purchase) the seedlings were all doing really well! Until... The massive stinkbug infestation. Every plant was entirely covered with stinkbugs! Lost them all!

My cucs have been getting off to a slow start this year, but they are finally flowering! I even saw a few microscopic fruits had set! Hurray!! And then I saw a stinkbug!!! And another!!!!! So now I am doing daily infestation checks and smooshing the little buggers as I find them. I found one catepillar that became chicken food.

I am having a seriously bad problem with ants in the yard this year. I saved my lemons from the ants farming aphids (maybe scale?) on all the tender new growth by hand picking off the aphids. Once the aphids were gone, the ants tried once more, but seem to have given up on those plants now. I did not do the recommended water wash for removing the aphids because I figured the ants would just find them again, and reinstall them. Squishing is going to ensure they do not get a chance to breed or feed the ants!

So I also have the "southern peas" (cowpeas) going by the corn rows. They just did not seem to be doing anything, though, and the corn was also looking small and a little yellow. I fed them with worm castings, then with the chicken manure soaked in water and vinegar...boy are they happy today! I will be applying more castings all around the garden: the soil I used seems to be nutrient poor...

I also read a study in which purslane was used successfully as a living mulch. Since it is sprouting all over the yard, I have been collecting the plants and moving them into the garden, as well as into the pottted veggies. I am very excited to have a mulch that can be added to salads or any other dish!

I used it in some lentil soup a couple of days ago, along with some parsley, green beans, amaranth leaves, mustard leaves, onion and garlic greens, and marjoram from the garden. It was very good! I just love going to the garden to gather a bounty for dinner!

 

[tigertusk]

I have some questions because I have never composted before. I read one post where they used a large outdoor plastic garbage can with the bottom cut out and put directly onto ground. No turning, etc. My questions are: I live in south Texas and so it is very hot and dry (but humid go figure) and now I am scared of the potential for FIRE. I could water it but not every day. What about FIREANTS? Nobody addresses this, maybe it is not a widespread problem, but here, it looks like I would have millions if new nasty pets. What if I put layers of diatomaceous earth? Will that not hurt the worms? Can I mail order worms? Bait stores here are for salt water.
I had asked this in another forum but got no responses, so I thought, let me try the other zone 9 people!
Plus, send me ideas on drought resistant plants that are edible and easy for the kids to grow, please! All we can manage now are fruit trees.
Thanks!

 

[Kikiriki]

I have some questions because I have never composted before. I read one post where they used a large outdoor plastic garbage can with the bottom cut out and put directly onto ground. No turning, etc. My questions are: I live in south Texas and so it is very hot and dry (but humid go figure) and now I am scared of the potential for FIRE. I could water it but not every day. What about FIREANTS? Nobody addresses this, maybe it is not a widespread problem, but here, it looks like I would have millions if new nasty pets. What if I put layers of diatomaceous earth? Will that not hurt the worms? Can I mail order worms? Bait stores here are for salt water.
I had asked this in another forum but got no responses, so I thought, let me try the other zone 9 people!
Plus, send me ideas on drought resistant plants that are edible and easy for the kids to grow, please! All we can manage now are fruit trees.
Thanks!

I apologize for being slow to respond...our dog got bloat and we had to put him to sleep. I was too sad to be communicating: he was the farm dog from my sister who passed away a year and a half ago...my squirrel and hawk chasing chicken protector who had the biggest heart in the world! He had a spinal embolism this past winter and went paralyzed on his right side...he learned to walk and run again, and was just such a happy dog... I wonder if the paralysis had something to do with the bloat. (Bloat is when the stomach or intestines twist, cutting off blood flow). I will always miss him, but I was lucky to have him in my life for a while...

So, to answer your questions:

I have very poor composting skills! I have never gotten a pile to compost. I have also worried about fire risk because I know it can happen based upon composting starting in hay bales that were baled when the grass is too damp. And I can testify that ants do like my pile of stuff that refuses to compost. Clearly, we need a compost expert who is from our type of area!

DE does not harm worms. However, DE needs to be dry, and compost piles are supposed to be moist, so I do not know how effective DE would be in that situation.

You can mail order worms and the good part is you get select what will work for you. Worms need to have dampness, too, so if water is an issue you can use a container that will help retain water. I have had very good results in an old styrofoam container: it helps moderate temperture fluctuations, as well as keeping moisture. You could use spray foam to create a bigger area to keep them. I saw a youtube video of a guy who raises worms in the desert: he does rows which he covers with foam board that has the reflective silver coating.

Purslane is an edible succulent that you can do quite easily. The stem, leaves and flowers can be eaten and it self sows. It has a lemony taste, and can be used raw or cooked. Limit to about 100 grams per person a day, though, as it does has oxylic acid that can cause upset tummy or cause kidney stones in people who are prone to them. (spinach also has it...if you tolerate spinach, the purslane should not be a problem and it tastes better!)

Herbs are usually more drought tolerant than vegetables, so rosemary is a good one. My basil has done really well in a container. Mint has done well for me in a container in part shade. In fact I just divided some to give away to a guest... My parsley did well in my only container that does not have a water reservoir, but I do water it every day that we don't get rain. I just bought another one to try in a self watering pot.

Another youtube person to look for is a guy named John and his channel is grow your greens. He lives in Las Vegas and deals with the dry and heat. He does raised beds with drip irrigation and heavy mulch.

Self watering containers are also a good way to grow while conserving water: they typically have a reservoir at the bottom, and a drain hole above that to prevent flooding when rain does happen. You can make them for just a few bucks or buy premade.

A lot of plants seem to benefit from being protected with a UV blocking shade cloth in intense heat areas.

All these things create microclimates that are easier to maintain. You control the quality of the soil, the moisture, the light and heat and UV stress. (UV is not as good as visible light, creates more heat which causes more evaporation, and burns plants.) Using containers means you do not lose moisture and nutrients down into the earth. However, the containers and plants you do have help make cooling shade that can make a bigger micro climate over time.

In African desert areas they found that having trees helped with the growth of ground plants: they pull up deep water, support microorganisms, provide food for worms and shade that reduces heat of the soil, plus provide a windbreak to decrease evaporation. Since you have trees, put them to work for garden plants!

If you start a garden, I would do containers just outside the drip line of the trees you have. Find a place to set up a shade house: just a pvc frame with cloth that blocks UV but allows air flow. I plan to do one myself: I also need it to provide some bug exclusion, since bugs are my biggest issue right now.

If you do this, you can focus less on drought tolerance and more on heat tolerance: Peppers are good and do well in heat, though they benefit from midday shade.
Cherry tomatoes do better than other larger types through the hot part of the year. I am still waiting for the everglades tomato seeds we got to sprout. They do well in south florida (zone 10) which tends to be flood or drought (florida is called a wet desert!), so look for those online... Some master gardeners who moved to my area from south florida said they preferred the Sweet 100 variety of cherry tomato, but I want heirlooms and I am not sure if the Sweet 100's are or not.
Water melons planted in a container might be good.
My onions and garlic in containers are doing much better than the ones I put in the ground.
The purslane I put in the ground is doing better than the ones I put in containers.
I discovered my amaranth likes partial shade better than full sun here.
Sweet potatoes are easy and do real well in containers. The leaves are edible, too, for chickens: have to look up how they are for people...

I have one plum type tomato left and it is happy in part shade in a container.

Beans! Beans! Beans! I have been very happy with pole beans and bush beans. The italian pole beans have a really nice flavor, sweeter than the other varities and are my favorite green bean now. I got a late start on my experiment with "southern peas" which are pea like bush beans: they go by a lot of names (cow pea, for example) and there are a lot of varieties. I put them in the ground under my corn and they have no bug issues, are very happy, and are now flowering. Because they went in the ground, I did water them. I ran out of pots... I wish I had tried some in full sun, because the corn does shade them. They are reaching out for the sun, so I think they could've handled more...

Wherever you plant the plants, you can help them by using shade cloth, mulch, or a green living mulch of a complementary plant. (You will have to research "companion planting" as I am not very familiar with it.)

Hope this helps!

 

[Kikiriki]

Oh...one more thought: huglekultur!

Burying your thick wood pieces and planting on top of that creates a microclimate because the wood absorbs and slowly releases water... This is a great thing to do that really works. The wood provides a habitat for microorganisms the plants need, and provides nutrients, too.

 

[danib]

I have lots of red and black ants. Any suggestion on how to get rid of them (without any chemicals)

 

[Kikiriki]

I have lots of red and black ants. Any suggestion on how to get rid of them (without any chemicals)

I am not sure if you mean an ant with both red and black, or two types of ants, one that is all black, and one that is all red.

There are a lot of different kinds of ants, and not all pose a problem: they do participate in cycling back of matter for building new plants.

That said, if they are causing you problems, you can use DE and dust around their entrances, but you have to redo it every time it gets wet, and you may have to do it several times before a colony gets killed off. The DE worked great on some colonies when it was dry, but now that we are getting rain, I can't use it. I like the DE because it is food grade, and safe for the pets and chickens, and me too! Just do not breath the dust...

I have used boiling water and soapy water, both of which also needed repeating. Of those two, soapy water worked best in areas where I had plants growing that I did not want killed.

I tried vinegar, which just made them move a foot over.

I tried grits, which killed some, but then served as lovely food for growing the colony larger.

I tried the very pricey orange oil (after reading a lot of research), but the cheap soapy water worked just as well for me.

I now have ant bait under a patio paver where the dog cannot get to it. I used the liquid for kitchen ants, mixed it into peanut butter with some honey, and put it in a little deli food container with a lid. I punched small holes for the ants. this took care of a very widespread colony of some new ant that was popping up from every crack in my outdoor patio area that is made of the big concrete pavers. I also tried one around a plant bed. Both seem to have worked, as all those ants are gone. I know fire ants like meat, (they swarm on dead animals) so I want to try this by "marinating" some raw hamburger in the same "Ant Kil" product. This has orthoboric acid and it is not safe for pets or kids, which is why I had to put it in a very safe place under the paver the dogs could not dig under.

So there are some options! The downside is that these all only work on existing colonies, and new ones will move in before you know it... The nice thing with the bait is that you do not have to find the colony, or find all the entrances.

If you decide to use a bait, experiment with bits of food to see what the ants go for... Honey, meat, peanut butter, chips, cookies, or whatever! Spread them out on pieces of paper in place where you have recently seen the ants (not right on top of a mound, though). Do it early in the morning when it is cool and the ants are miving about, then sit nearby to keep birds or pets or squirrels away to see which foods the ants favor most.

 

[Kikiriki]

Went to Home Depot for a toilet flush repair kit and checked out with a bag of organic soil, a large eggplant plant, a parsley, and zucchinni seedlings I could not resist: got to the car and realized I did not get the repair kit!

Got the parsley and zucchinni planted, but the eggplant is in a pot with a cage and I am afraid I will knock off the flowers if I try to transplant it. I love those purple flowers! It is, unfortunately, a hybrid, but I might save seeds just to see what happens (assuming I get some fruits!) it is a cultivar called Ichiban.

I was looking up the growing conditions for the zucchinni and discovered there is a GMO summer squash. How do you know if a plant is GMO when you buy it at a garden center? Some are marked "heritage", so it seems they may be the only ones assured to be non-GMO. Sigh....

My mom got me two gigantic planters from Sam's Club. Good thing I had that bag of soil from Home Depot! They are large enough to make them wicking planters. If my everglades tomato seeds ever sprout I think I will be putting them in one of them. I have a mulberry tree that I decided needed to be dwarfed and I put it in the largest pot I had, but these new pots are even larger, so I may switch it out.

Our lawn mower died a few years ago and my mom gave us her old one. It died, too. I was so sick of these expensive lawnmowers that need constant repair and servicing, so my DH found a lawn service for just $30 a visit. It is a very good price and he does a good job, but we can't afford weekly mowing, even though the yard needs it. I used the weed wacker to knock it down to reasonable length, and one small section of 40' x 30' left me exhausted with a sore back. I bought a human powered reel mower. It is supposed to come today and I really hope it works on our very varied types of grasses and weeds! I would also like to be able to take it to my mothers house to use on a couple of areas that are slopped. I use her riding mower there, but am afraid of getting on those slopes with it. From the reviews, people either loved the reel mower or hated it. It seems one must keep up with mowing, and walk the yard picking up sticks and pinecones before mowing. That is not a problem for me. Some people complained that it misses grasses that are growing sideways, or won't cut too fine or too thick of grasses. I don't mind going out with scissors to hand cut a few straglers since I do that for the chickens anyway.

Update on my purslane experiment: I had added vinegar to the chicken manure mixed in water and fed it to the purslane... All that leaves are gone from those plants! Did something nibble them, or did the solution cause the leaves to fall off? I don't know, but I suspect it was the solution since all the other purslane plants are intact. I will be waiting to see if the stems get new leaves and what condition they are if they do...

I have another weed that is a succulent stem with clear fluid. It acts like a ground cover and spreads madly. It has thinner leaves than the purslane, though they are plumper than non succulent leaves. The leaves are narrow and pointed, and tend to curl sownwards. They grow in pairs, one leaf on each side of the stem. I have no idea if this is a poison or harmful weed. I had a pile of raked leaves that had the mystery weed in it because it breaks off very easily. After sitting in the pile of leaves for week, soaking in rainwater caught in the wheelbarrow, or having no light or no water, all of that weed was still viable, some was rooting, and almost none had died. A bunch I had sorted out was in just in a pile that got no water: it was also still exacly the same as the stuff in the ground after a week!

Yesterday, I was about to use the hose: it had sat out in the sun, so the water was super hot...decided to spray that weed with hot hot water to see if that would kill it...stay tuned for that result!