Buckeye Chicken Breeders

Arielle · Jul 12, 2013

alana124 said:
Thank you Rick and Arielle, I really appreciate your replies.

Rick: your comment exactly reflects my dilemma--do I start a new line, or stick with tried and true? Why reinvent the wheel esp. when excellent lineage already exists? My main goal really is to maintain or continue the breed per the SOP--meat and daily egg production.

Arielle: I met Don Schrider who was part of a seminar I attended last year. (Actually, it was he that put the you-can-even-create-your-own-line bug in my ear). Although Don quickly brushed on the topic of breeding, I really wished the WHOLE seminar revolved around that.

So, if I go by what Mr. Schrider recommends; start with what you have; go with 3 families; select the best from them; mate; select, and so on...would I need a chicken house

...?
Perhaps I should just get a new flock from an existing lineage

Do you have DOn's email?? He is happy to talk with you via email and answer even the most mundane questions.

Ultimately you will create your own line even if you start with only 1 line originally. YOu will put your own stamp on what you breed, and that will show in the future generations een if itis not apparent in the first few.

Part of DOn's buckeye project, in my view, was to add vigor and increase growth weight and body weight in the buckeye. He was able to increase the 16 wk weight by a full pound from what I have read. In the hands of other breeders, has that been maintained, or have other aspects been focued on for improvement-- my point is that each breeder brings his/her own influence to the breed.

YOu will have to be the one to decide what to do. Here is a hint. When I communicated with DOn he recommended stock from a number of breeders and to keep a 3 pen rotation going, even if the the pens were actually shared among 2-3 breeders. FOr ex. I was thinking of working with a person who has only one line, andperhaps if I kept 2 pens, I got a male from him every 1-2 years as he would get a male from me every 1-2 years. THat would maintain a 3 pen rotation. All the lines were ALBC lines recommended now in the hands of other breeders.

If you just want to save ONE line, please consider MR Rhodes. He has a very old line of good stock. It was used in making the ALBC line and needs support as Mr RHodes has slowed down in breeding and my fear is his birds will disappear.

Remember your birds can flock together during the none breeding season, then be separated for the breeding season. Birds need to be clearly marked as to original pens. Toe punch and wingband seem to be the popular methods of clear and permanent ID. Canyou free range, or are you limited to a penned situation? 2 males per pen and 3-6 females per pen to winter over would be my suggestion. ( Heir and a spare on the males.)

Marengoite · Jul 13, 2013

alana124 said:
Thank you Rick and Arielle, I really appreciate your replies.

Rick: your comment exactly reflects my dilemma--do I start a new line, or stick with tried and true? Why reinvent the wheel esp. when excellent lineage already exists? My main goal really is to maintain or continue the breed per the SOP--meat and daily egg production.

Arielle: I met Don Schrider who was part of a seminar I attended last year. (Actually, it was he that put the you-can-even-create-your-own-line bug in my ear). Although Don quickly brushed on the topic of breeding, I really wished the WHOLE seminar revolved around that.

So, if I go by what Mr. Schrider recommends; start with what you have; go with 3 families; select the best from them; mate; select, and so on...would I need a chicken house

...?
Perhaps I should just get a new flock from an existing lineage

Alana,

Hatchery birds are great to start off with and you will learn a lot from them. We raised market turkeys for 4H for four years before we got into chickens, so we weren't new to poultry, but there was a lot we learned our first year. Here's what I've learned so far (and I have a long ways to go):

1. Set some goals for your breeding program. I used to hear this all the time starting out and didn't know what that mean. My goal was to keep a generation of chickens alive long enough to get started with a breeding program. Since then, I've branched out to wanting to breed as close to the SOP as possible, learn how to cull, and learn as much as I can about the breed. But my ultimate goal is to maintain a strong dual-purpose bird. You will need to do a lot of research to see what the different goals are to choose from, but that's a fun project to keep you busy over the winter.

2. Start with the best birds you can buy. Once you know what it is you want to accomplish in your breeding program, start with the birds that come the closest to meeting those goals. If you want to increase egg production in the breed, go with birds from a strong line of layers. If you want heavy meat birds, go with a different line. If you want strong dual purpose, you need to find the best compromise between them. But one of the things I've learned is that it costs just as much to feed culls as it does to feed keepers. The birds you have right now may be great to start out, but if they don't contribute to your overall goal, I wouldn't bother trying to "breed them in the direction you want to go." That's a multi-year investment and it may not pay off. There's a reason the phrase "don't put all your eggs in one basket" exists. Chicken breeders usually keep multiple projects going in the hopes that one of them will turn out into something worthwhile.

3. Basic husbandry goes a long way to building quality birds. By this I mean you need to make sure you master the basics of food, water, shelter, and care. Even if you start with champion birds, bad management will quickly drag them down. Keeping chickens isn't complicated, but you do need to be dedicated. If you are especially new to chickens, the main thing you need to worry about is how to manage poop. I'm not kidding. Once you get that down, the rest of it is easy. And if you don't have a good strategy for managing poop your pens will soon be dirty, smelly, and unattractive. Even if you free rang most of the time, you still have the poop under the roosts to manage. I've integrated mine with my gardening system, but it is still something I have to plan for. The other big management concern is predator-proofing. My pens are not so much to keep the birds in as they are to keep the predators out. Nothing hurts a breeding program worse than a raccoon or a skunk looking for some nighttime chicken nuggets.

All the best,

rick

Arielle · Jul 13, 2013

THere are good breeders out there. Finding them can be harder.If you want BUckeyes, many resources there. If you decide on something else. When you are serious, really serious abut finding good birds, send RobertBLosl a pm. Or pop on to one of his threads for help.

PA Farmer24 · Jul 15, 2013

Pathfinders said:
Here's what I suggest (and you can take or leave my advise as it pleases you,

):

Start with what you have. You say you got your existing birds from a hatchery, have to ask, which one? Regardless, unless they are not true to type for the breed, then you should certainly keep them and work with them. I would suggest you get a copy of the Standard of Perfection so as to make sure you're breeding them to the Standard, which you will want to do whether you show them later or not.

Most people don't worry too much about establishing their own line/strain at first, the thing (IMO) you should work on for the first goodly number of years is getting your birds to match the Standard and to reproduce themselves well.

Depending on the source of your birds you may need to bring a new cock bird/cockerel in from another source, but there are lots of folks out there with Buckeyes, and you should be able to find one that will "nic" well with your existing line.

And yes, you will need a chicken house (coop, pens, etc.) in order to safely house your birds and protect them from predators. Hardware cloth is your friend, do not rely on chicken wire to keep predators out, it's only good for keeping chickens in.

Also, see the new Buckeye thread here for more info on these great birds: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/803253/the-new-buckeye-thread

Best,

Laura

I agree with Laura on the hardware cloth vs. poultry wire. Although I find that using heavier gage welded wire fencing like 1" x 2" works very good but you will need to use a air stapler and not the standard hand stapler. 1" staples will work very well and nothing will get it.

Michael Apple · Jul 22, 2013

Thick layer of shavings under roosts helps dehydrate droppings. I take a dog poop scoop with a small rake and pick up under roosts each morning. It only takes a few minutes with 25 birds.This also enables me to see if there are any problems arising by the appearance of the droppings. I collect it in a garbage can. When the can gets full, it gets added to the compost pile at the far end of the pasture, and eventually the garden.

alana124 · Jul 28, 2013

Hi Pathfinder/ Laura /PA Farmer...the hatchery where my Buckeye chicks came from is called A & J Farms Domani Ranch in upstate NY...I'm very pleased with his birds, really. Bought Cornish Cross hybrids from them too; they dressed out at 6.6 -9.9 lbs in 9 weeks, and I didn't lose one. My Buckeyes too, all healthy, vigorous, and seem true to breed. The 2 roosters are extremely friendly, and non aggressive. I will say however, although it may be too early to tell, that half the Buckeyes have a rust coloring to them, while the others are the deep mahogany. Also, I do have a couple of the rust colored females who love to peck the backs of the other birds, pull a feather out, run with it, and eat in in the corner. Not sure what THAT'S all about. I'm lucky to have 3 pens, so I created 2 flocks, 1 male to 5 females per pen; all the rust colored birds in one pen, mahogany in the other. Since doing this, the pecking brats are being put in their place by the others. Will the rust coloring eventually turn darker?

My Buckeyes were hatched on May 10th, so I would say they're 10, going on 11 weeks?

Would you know why some of the chicks like pecking and pulling out and eating feathers from the other's backs?

The chicks are still in their interior pens, and once their adjoining runs are complete, they'll hang out there till they're a bit older before I allow them to free range. I have older hens (3 yr old Barred Rocks, and RIR) that free range all day with no fencing, and so far the foxes and hawks have kept their distance, which is surprising since I see them all the time.

But I digress...I'm hoping the mahogany color Buckeyes will prove to be the chickens I breed, since the females are showing nice square bodies, and yellow shanks. Even the Roo is lovely. But, I'll have to wait and see.

Pathfinders · Jul 29, 2013

Feather eating is generally a sign that your chickens are not getting enough protein in their diets. What brand of feed are you using? If you read the tag, does it say only vegetable protein? Or does it show animal protein.

Feather picking is also sometimes a sign of cramped quarters, so you do need to get the runs done sooner than later it sounds like.

There are a number of ways to include animal protein into your chicks diets:

- Find a feed that includes it, like Purina's Game Bird feed line
- Add in some cooked ground beef or raw trimmings from your local butcher shop if you can get them to give you some
- Add in a small amount of high quality, non-poultry based cat food, such as Evo Herring and Salmon dry cat food: http://www.evopet.com/products/1431, which is about 50% protein
- Add in some catfish feed pellets, which are generally about 35% protein.

Be sure to read the labels of anything you use, to ensure there isn't a high sodium level (the Evo isn't showing sodium content on that link.)

Just some suggestions, hope they help. Good luck with them!

LH

Minniechickmama · Aug 30, 2013

alana124 said:
Hi Pathfinder/ Laura /PA Farmer...the hatchery where my Buckeye chicks came from is called A & J Farms Domani Ranch in upstate NY...I'm very pleased with his birds, really. Bought Cornish Cross hybrids from them too; they dressed out at 6.6 -9.9 lbs in 9 weeks, and I didn't lose one. My Buckeyes too, all healthy, vigorous, and seem true to breed. The 2 roosters are extremely friendly, and non aggressive. I will say however, although it may be too early to tell, that half the Buckeyes have a rust coloring to them, while the others are the deep mahogany. Also, I do have a couple of the rust colored females who love to peck the backs of the other birds, pull a feather out, run with it, and eat in in the corner. Not sure what THAT'S all about. I'm lucky to have 3 pens, so I created 2 flocks, 1 male to 5 females per pen; all the rust colored birds in one pen, mahogany in the other. Since doing this, the pecking brats are being put in their place by the others. Will the rust coloring eventually turn darker?

My Buckeyes were hatched on May 10th, so I would say they're 10, going on 11 weeks?

Would you know why some of the chicks like pecking and pulling out and eating feathers from the other's backs?

The chicks are still in their interior pens, and once their adjoining runs are complete, they'll hang out there till they're a bit older before I allow them to free range. I have older hens (3 yr old Barred Rocks, and RIR) that free range all day with no fencing, and so far the foxes and hawks have kept their distance, which is surprising since I see them all the time.

But I digress...I'm hoping the mahogany color Buckeyes will prove to be the chickens I breed, since the females are showing nice square bodies, and yellow shanks. Even the Roo is lovely. But, I'll have to wait and see.

This is just my two cents worth, but I wouldn't judge the birds based on their color alone. If you have some good darker birds and some good lighter birds, I would try working them together to get those lighter ones to a darker color rather than propogate two separate colors. Color isn't as important as type either, it is very low points in comparison to the rest of the bird when going by the 100 point system. I see it this way, if you make a cake (and if any of you have heard this, I apologize for repetition), if the cake tastes like garbage, is full of holes and falling apart, who cares what the icing is like? I would much rather have an awesome bird, true to standard and form with lighter feathering over a perfect plumage color and poor type.

Arielle · Sep 23, 2013

Minniechickmama said:
Quote:
LOL LOVE LOVE LOVE the anology-- hadn't heard that one before!!

When I was looking to buy my wedding cake, we bought one to taste test the cake from a multi award winning cake decorator. Beautiful cake. Tasted like a box cake-- because it was !!! WE found a bakery and while the decorating was pretty, the cake was delicious and there was no leftovers!!

While I love looking at a bird that is pretty, I love eating it just as much!!

Minniechickmama · Sep 23, 2013

Arielle said:
LOL LOVE LOVE LOVE the anology-- hadn't heard that one before!!

When I was looking to buy my wedding cake, we bought one to taste test the cake from a multi award winning cake decorator. Beautiful cake. Tasted like a box cake-- because it was !!! WE found a bakery and while the decorating was pretty, the cake was delicious and there was no leftovers!!

While I love looking at a bird that is pretty, I love eating it just as much!!

Arielle, I am glad you like that one. Feel free to use it

Truly, you can look at pretty birds all day long, but when you pick them up they might just be a rack of bones. The meat of the matter is what is under those feathers and how that bird is going perform either as food or as a breeding specimen or as a show bird.

Buckeye Chicken Breeders

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Marengoite

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Arielle

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