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[MMPoultryFarms]

Quote:
I didnt mean generations I meant strains. ""They typically use a system of four-way crossing to produce the parents of the birds that are raised as broilers. They select and develop certain strains to use as their male line, with emphasis on growth performance and body conformation, while at the same time developing different female lines, with emphasis on reproductive performance. This cross-breeding system protects each company’s genetic research, because the genetics of the original grandparents cannot be reproduced from their offspring."" (info found here http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/poultry_genetics.html) What I meant about that was if you could remove the 4th strain that creates the genetic block of the grandparents wouldnt you just have Broilers that could reproduce broilers? makes sense. If the 4 way is the block why not remove the 4 way? every last thing I read seems to continue to point at the 4 way being the reason for the block of reproduction in offspring.
Does it not make sense to try to eliminate that for our own purpose so that we can reproduce our own constantly without having to have years and years of new generations and more generations to keep production going. Obviously your not gonna breed your offspring if they dont reproduce the trades right. Thus the reason why you cant take a cornishx roo and hen and make a cornishx chick? If that 4 way breeding was broken down by say 3 strains then change them over 2 roo traits 1 hen trait, Next gen 2 hen traits 1 roo trait, rince repeat then could it be possible for the offspring to reproduce? perhaps my mind is just wandering lost somewhere in this affair but the more I study and read the more I keep seeing this so called genetic block in cornish x rocks that does not allow for offspring reproduction? and that there are 4 strains used to protect the breeder so that there is no reproduction of offspring. thus opening the market for the very few companys who actually produce these birds. ""The primary breeding companies for broilers in the U.S. are Aviagen (which includes the formerly separate companies of Arbor-Acres, Ross Breeders, and Nicholas Turkeys), Cobb-Vantress (which now includes Avian Farms and is owned by Tyson Foods), Hubbard-Isa, and Hybro. Most of these companies are multi-national enterprises, and they dominate the world market for conventional broiler production, as shown in the table below."" I am quite sure at 34 years old I have no clue as to what I am talking about. What I do know is I have plenty of life left in me to find out or attempt to find out what I am though. Were all in our search for the perfect home raised meaty thats self productive. And I dont doubt for one second theres several people close to these goals if not already there. So please if I am misinformed somewhere in my research correct my wrongs. thanks again Katy any advice is always appreciated. ( I even accept constructive critasizm

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[The Yakima Kid]

Another problem with breeding them is the enormous breasts can make it difficult for the roosters to mate. (I don't even want to contemplate artificially inseminating chickens - it's bad enough with domestic turkeys. And the colloquialism for said work study job is not repeated in polite company.)

 

[Jared77]

MMP I don't think Wikipedia has it correct with that information. Here's why.

Following what Wikipedia says....lets start with the Roo. His genetics would be AB. He gets A from one grandparent, and B from the other. So you get AB.

Now lets take the Hen. Her genetics are CD. She gets C from one grandparent and D from the other. So you have CD.

When you put Roo with the AB genetics behind him to hen CD behind her you've got quite a batch of chicks.

Its not just as simple as ABCD chicks.

The Roo could give genes A or genes B.

The hen could give genes C or D

So you've got chicks AC, AD, BC or BD. So if thats the case why do we get chicks that all grow up at the same rate, look the same and gain weight at the same time? That wouldn't be the case at all if each letter is its own breed.

It could work if the grandparents were already hybrids that were breeding true (reproducing themselves uniformly just like a RIR to RIR you get RIRs) and then you combined them to get a true breeding offspring, then repeated that to get CX chicks. Its a lot of work and tons of chicks to try to isolate traits being raised up to see what you have only to cull keeping only a few back to work from there. The biggest hurdle you are going to face is getting consistancy. I'm very curious to follow your work please keep us posted.

 

[KatyTheChickenLady]

hey MM - well I really can't add anything to what you've learned so far, I've read the same stuff. Just not so sure I buy into it.
Like Jared said the Wikipedia info doesn't quite add up . . . what if that's just what they want you to think? and if it's such a mystery why are all of the different and competitive "chicken factories" turning out almost the exact same thing? I just think maybe they want you to think it's more complicated than it is. Which if I am right puts you a lot coser to your goal.
Have you heard of the Morgan horse breed? that entire breed started with just one stallion which had some very unique traits, those traits were also dominant and showed in the offspring of every breeding and passed on as dominant traits. So from 1 horse and 1 breeder we now have a major breed recognized around the world.
My guess is that the chicken thing is more like that . . . maybe a male line that is dominant for growth and a totally seperate female line that, well, basicly just lays well and has recessive growth traits. Sure they both have "grandparent" lines, but it makes little difference because it's the dominant growth from the male that is the important ingredient. It's just my theory but to me it makes more sense than the "mystery" that they are feeding the press.

 

[3rocksandme]

I am very impressed by the girls processing chickens, those are some tough little ladies. They look so happy! I have a feeling if I did that I would be green and my station would need to include a puke bucket.

Very impressive get-up and system you have there.

 

[Sissy]

Wonderful set up. and the birds are beautiful.
Will you be inviting some for dinner
we have daughter on Ok.
we could make stop.
in time for the cook out.
you sure have great helpers.

 

[Bossroo]

Quote:
Also, are the A B C D genes dominant or recessive ? Do eather of the parents carry a modifier gene that is dominant or recessive ? Does eather of the parents contribute a string of their individual grandparent's genes in sequence or a combination of the snipets of both grandparent genes?

 

[MMPoultryFarms]

I think this is more like the Dog breeding programs I am currently drawing up a Breeding chart so to speak to better explain my theory. by the web saying 4 strains of grandparents one would assume that you simply breed good and wonderful traits. it isnt nor will it ever be that simple this is for example we will use an indian game, white plymouth rock, pair ok 2 IG PR assuming you cross breed the 2 pairs you would have a Cornish rock (not X just a cross) raising those chicks and taking the best growth rated chicks and best traits of your liking. and breeding those back into The plymouth and IG Strains. would not produce a bird that grows all at the same rate size and conformation. But if you take the PWR and the IG and say breed that strain Consecutivly Culling everything that didnt reach the expectation. then taking your good hatch's to your other PWR/IG ( assuming your not attempting this off only one quad of birds. My design requires several sets of birds lets say 8 WPR straind and 8 IG strains. by culling and Continueing to reproduce these traits we are looking for and continueing to Cull out the unacceptable chicks. Over time we begin to develop a genetic pattern. lets say the first is simply a size gene were looking for If we consecutivly Breed and only keep birds that size up then. In time we will create a genetic stamp for that size. then lets say we Go for breast size. If we repeat that process all over again breeding thus time for breast size and formation. We would create a trait of large breasts. I do not believe that anyone can accomplish this goal in less then 5 years infact I am thinking 5-10 years.
Its a rince and repeate Process. I will admit its complicated for me to type my thoughts if we were in a conversation maybe I would make more sense. Point is I believe this is a structured breeding program that requires the development of genetic coding. I bred APBT for 14 years I did alot of line breeding and even achieved a gola of producing a 45 lbs dog from the traits of a 70-80 lbs dog Nigerino bloodlines crossed with boudreaux that goal took me about 5 years to achiev but I was successful in my attempts to down size the dog. Yet being able to breed back the important traits that were needed for me to be able to guarentee the dogs I sold were game and working dogs. each puppy came with a money back guarentee. (for the record I no longer stand on the beliefs of breeding APBT for game and thus have been out of that business for quit some years now no need to flame me No animal should be raised for game in my beliefs I was young then age brings wisdom.) I think if i was able to down size a dog by genetic breeding why not Upsize chickens the same way and principals I used then? I also believe to achiev this goal there must be some Line breeding. you breeders know what that means I will assume.
I also want to add I have no experience in Breeding chickens this i just my research studys and experamintation with dogs that leads me to believe I can mimic the industry. If you are interested in talking with me about this please feel free to PM me and I will give you my business number and we can chat about it it is intirely to hard without building a chart for you to visually see where i am going with this.