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[North Briton]

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[digitS']

Quote:
The value of protein as an energy source (calories for warmth) is less than the value of fats and carbohydrates. Remember Robert Atkins*??

The kidneys must void all those nitrogen wastes from high protein intake.

*As a disclaimer to the Atkins Diet and to give more information on: "The Importance of Carbs, Proteins, and Fats," Kent State University, Health Services

Steve

 

[Beekissed]

Bkiss, Confined to a run (not free range) is often ness. for containment, segragation and protection. Permanent confinement in a small cage becomes mental cruelty

My question about confinement was relevant to the nutritive information, as the OP stated that his feed information was geared towards birds that could not get extra nutrition from free ranging but must depend on these formulas for their only source.

If a bird is merely confined to a stationary run/pen and not to a cage, is this the nutrition information that is pertinent, or is this for a commercial set-up only? If so, and it is for cage confined birds only, it doesn't really pertain to us backyard chickeners, does it? Most of us free range or have outside pens instead of confinement cages.

If it is meant for chickens that are merely confined to a run/pen, then the information may have some pertinence.

Just trying to find out which it may be, is all.

 

[North Briton]

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[Beekissed]

Thanks! I free range but I like to read up on this stuff. I'm currently working on a plan to increase the nutrition of my lawn and orchard grasses for further nutrition, as well as exploring alternate forms of vegetable nutrition like mangels.

 

[luvmygirlsinAK]

Quote:
Nope!

My chickies keep warm from their heater, usually, (particularly the cold spell we just went through _40 to _48 F. for over two weeks) except right now we have had a "heat wave" and the temperatures outside right now are 25 F.

The heat has been off since we've had such "heat" here, and the temps have been 65 to 70 F. in the coop with the window open all the way for ventilation.

Course, I am a firm believer in protein providing heat-when I am cold, it is usually when I need to eat--Protein.

Perhaps this is why it is so warm right now in the coop-they get their protein-are happy little chickies, and their body heat is making it warm. Last night it was 25 F. all night, and the temp. when we went in this morning was 75 F. A little warmer than I wanted in there.

Sorry, N.B. I have to disagree with you on the issue of protein. But I thought your article was extremely interesting, and can't wait for more! By the way, My chickens are fed what I feed them for their health and mine! They are quite healthy and have lot's of protein, I make sure of it!!! They are great egg layers, and the pullets are just starting to lay as well. Mama's happy and they're happy!

 

[luvmygirlsinAK]

Quote:
Pumkin seeds in particular are quite high in protein-19 grams of protein to 1/4 cup seeds. Sunflower seeds are less, I think I read 9 grams, and flax seeds 8 grams per 1/4 cup.

Here is an article I found most interesting:

Increasing Protein to Poultry Frances D. Burton (University of Toronto at Scarborough, Dept. of Anthropology) and Peter G. Silverman (Ombudsman, CITY TV, Toronto) Poultry can be an important source of food following drought and crop failure. Unfortunately, reduced staple crop production also affects the chickens so that they become scrawnier and less able to produce eggs thereby detracting from their potential contribution to human diet. The article below suggests one rather innovative means by which the nutrition of poultry may be safeguarded in times of drought and food scarcity. Eds Chickens are unable to manufacture 10 necessary amino acids or the B vitamins.1 They therefore require a diet high in protein. In addition, they require fats and carbohydrates, and cannot exist on high fibre diets. When NGOs or the FAO have taken a role in the improvement of family poultry farming in the developing world, the diet endorsed is varied, comprised of grains and tubers "for energy" (millet, sorghum, maize, sweet potatoes, and even cassava); meals for protein (sunflower cake, fish meal, cotton seed cake, maize germ, soya cake, meat and bone meal) and vegetables "for vitamins" (green grass, green kale, and cabbage)2 and green seaweed.3 The grains are given as a supplement to foraging4 with millet recommended as the best grain for protein supplementation in chickens. Where these are unavailable, leaf meals have been used,5 and recent research suggests that the seeds of the Croton tree are valuable in supplying necessary oils and proteins.1 In the search for less expensive, natively available food for chickens, recent studies suggest that tobacco seed cakes,6 or even molasses from sugar cane residue,7 can be reasonably and productively utilised, and that meal from azolla, snails or rice polishings are comparable to maize-soybean meal diets.8 In Haiti, however, farmers often are unable to purchase any form of supplementation for their poultry, relying on the birds to forage for themselves. In addition, water is seldom if ever made available, as the labour to do so where there is not a readily accessible source, precludes it. Where the daily wage is $1.00 US, and the local medical fee $1.50, high quality feed is a luxury. The result is poor production from the poultry both in eggs and meat. During the course of participating with Habitat for Humanity in Les Cayes, Haiti, we developed a solution to the vexing problem of how to increase protein intake to poultry where there is neither sufficient labour to care for them, nor financial resources to provide high quality feed for them. The land thereabouts is steeply sloped, but mostly cleared and grassy, with a few trees, and some shrubs and bushes at the foot. The heat and humidity are high. Chickens are left to find forage wherever they wander. They are thin, muscular and do not contribute greatly to the diet. The project was to build a house of two rooms; the kitchen and toilet would be outside the building. The materials were locally made concrete blocks. The site was compacted clay, laboriously dug by hand for the footings. In the course of constructing the home, we stacked the concrete blocks at the foot of the slope leading to the site for easy access. While the house site and the surrounding grassy area were extremely hot with little shade, the concrete bricks provided an environment that was cool and moist. It became attractive, therefore, as a habitat for a variety of arthropods and small vertebrates. The chickens soon learned to gather when the blocks were removed. The forage provided them with a plentiful and varied diet, high in fats and protein. Insects compare favourably with beef in these nutrients.9 One-hundred grams of caterpillars, for example, provide 28.2 gms of protein, 35.5 mg of iron, and 10.8 mg. of three major B vitamins, while 100 gms of lean, ground beef provides 27.4 gms of protein, only 3.5 mg. of iron, and a total of just over 6 mgs. of the three B vitamins. This means of increasing nutrient for chickens requires one or a few concrete blocks, bricks, or large stones. The forage underneath would provide an important source of protein and fats to make a significant difference in size, weight and quality of eggs and meat. This method has the advantage of requiring no assistance from any organisation, nor reallocation of finances to enhance flock value.

 

[Mac in Wisco]

N.B., has it right, for the most part. Energy requirements go up as the weather get colder. That energy comes from carbs, proteins, and fats in aggregate with fats providing the most calories, by weight, as compared to protein and carbs. If birds are eating more of a standard ration to fulfill their energy requirements they are probably getting too much protein. Protein is the most expensive part of the ration and the excess is just excreted as nitrogen. Feeding excessive protein can also cause unwanted effects in layer flocks, like excessive bird weight and oversized eggs.

The confusing part about protein is that when considering the heat increment of the metabolic process, the greatest part of the heat increment does come from the protein, followed by carbs, and then fats, but the energy used by a bird is not just the energy used to keep it warm. That specific energy (the heat increment) is only a portion of the total energy in the feed. Some energy is passed on in the fecal matter, other energy is excreted as urine and gases, the rest is used in maintenance and production.

In short, in cold weather birds need more calories. They will eat more to get these calories, but the protein required stays the same, thus the percentage of protein in the ration should go down.

 

[North Briton]

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[Mac in Wisco]

If I feed my birds barley sprouts, won't it make the eggs taste like malted milkshake?