16% or 18% Nutrena Feed

[628990]

Thanks for everyone’s input!

The last thing now is the fact that the only 18% Nutrena feed is the soy free…. I want my hens to have the soy in their diet, and the higher protein.

I will have to take a look at the all flock feed

 

[3KillerBs]

Thanks for everyone’s input!

The last thing now is the fact that the only 18% Nutrena feed is the soy free…. I want my hens to have the soy in their diet, and the higher protein.

I will have to take a look at the all flock feed

Are there other brands to consider?

Different feed stores carry different brands and sometimes you get a great option on a local brand. When I had my in-town flock the one store carried a local brand that had a better nutritional profile than the national brands for several dollars less per 50# bag. Alas, that brand is no more, but it could be worth checking into.

 

[628990]

Are there other brands to consider?

Different feed stores carry different brands and sometimes you get a great option on a local brand. When I had my in-town flock the one store carried a local brand that had a better nutritional profile than the national brands for several dollars less per 50# bag. Alas, that brand is no more, but it could be worth checking into.

I’ll have to see next time I go to the feed store. Thanks again for everyone’s input You guys really helped me out!

 

[Rangergord]

Thanks Stormcrow! I understood the importance of the essential amino acids in soy, but to see it all laid out like that is something else. The historical context you gave is particularly helpful. In reading the book Feeding Poultry by G Heuser from the 1950’s soy and beans are mentioned but it says that legumes were too expensive at that time to be used as feed. Animal protein was used instead and thought to be essential because the amino acids were not completely understood at that time and abundant, cheap soy was not yet available. We are fortunate to have an agricultural system that can now produce large volumes of vegetable protein!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thanks Stormcrow! I understood the importance of the essential amino acids in soy, but to see it all laid out like that is something else. The historical context you gave is particularly helpful. In reading the book Feeding Poultry by G Heuser from the 1950’s soy and beans are mentioned but it says that legumes were too expensive at that time to be used as feed. Animal protein was used instead and thought to be essential because the amino acids were not completely understood at that time and abundant, cheap soy was not yet available. We are fortunate to have an agricultural system that can now produce large volumes of vegetable protein!

In studies as recently as 2000, it was still hard to directly measure the sulphur containing amino acids, of which Methionine is the most important. So you will often find figures in them labled "SAA" or "TSAA" or "Met+Cys", where Cys is Cystine - something we don't even talk about. The "correct" ratio of Met to Cys was also, briefly, studied. It might be important to other critters, but it seems largely irrelevant to feeding poultry.

If I recall correctly, Met can be turned into Cystine by a chicken, but Cystine can't be turned into Met...

and the fact that it contains sulphur is why making synthetic version is so expensive. L-Lysine can be made by fermentation, or produced by certain microorganisms (modifed yeast, i believe, are used, but might be modified bacterium). dl-Methionine? synthesized from acrolein, methyl mercaptan, and any readily available sources of cyanide and ammonium ions

 

[3KillerBs]

In studies as recently as 2000, it was still hard to directly measure the sulphur containing amino acids, of which Methionine is the most important. So you will often find figures in them labled "SAA" or "TSAA" or "Met+Cys", where Cys is Cystine - something we don't even talk about. The "correct" ratio of Met to Cys was also, briefly, studied. It might be important to other critters, but it seems largely irrelevant to feeding poultry.

If I recall correctly, Met can be turned into Cystine by a chicken, but Cystine can't be turned into Met...

and the fact that it contains sulphur is why making synthetic version is so expensive. L-Lysine can be made by fermentation, or produced by certain microorganisms (modifed yeast, i believe, are used, but might be modified bacterium). dl-Methionine? synthesized from acrolein, methyl mercaptan, and any readily available sources of cyanide and ammonium ions

Chemistry has never been one of my strong subjects, so I'm grateful that you've gone to the trouble of doing the research and putting it into simple terms to educate others.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Chemistry has never been one of my strong subjects, so I'm grateful that you've gone to the trouble of doing the research and putting it into simple terms to educate others.

I can read it, I can remember it, I can mostly understand it well enough to know where it might apply. But I can't do it.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

What about mixing something like a turkey feed with layer? Would that help with higher protein, but not too much to cause problems?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

What about mixing something like a turkey feed with layer? Would that help with higher protein, but not too much to cause problems?

That's what I do. Technically, its a "game bird grower" at 24% I get from the local mill, pretty cheap. Which I mix with the much cheaper 16% layer feed from the mill. End result is 20% protein, with acceptable levels of fat, fiber. Unfortunately, its also got an average of the calcium between the two - about 2.8%. There's no external evidence of the high calcium levels in my older culled males (apoprox 1 year), but there are some signs on very close visual inspection of their internals - mostly liver and intestines. I can't find those signs on my younger culled males (16-20 wks), but I raise them on 24% protein (1-1.5% calcium) their first 8 weeks, so I wouldn't expect to see any without a lab, a microscope, and blood work.

Its not something I would recommend (and don't) for a mixed flock you intend to keep for most of their natural span of years.

 

[3KillerBs]

Its not something I would recommend (and don't) for a mixed flock you intend to keep for most of their natural span of years.

Important point.

I personally would not follow that method because, though I do intend to replace my breeding males regularly, I'm not turning them over as fast as you are -- currently planning on keeping them active from 18-months to 3 years so as to enable intentional line-breeding.

My plans may change, but I'm going to be cautious in a way I needn't be if I was planning on turning them over rapidly.