2 Hoop coop cattle panel questions

[U_Stormcrow]

All I can tell you about rabbits is that we once had one (NOT my idea), I got stuck washing it (the person whose idea it was, wouldn't), and the infections I got on my arm when it scratched me were some of the worst I've ever received from an animal.

So I'm bowing out - my experiences (few though they be) do not make me an unbiased commenter on that subject.

 

[21hens-incharge]

What I ran into with bunnies was in group settings they fight....and it is brutal. I would not try a loose colony of rabbits.

 

[affacat]

What I ran into with bunnies was in group settings they fight....and it is brutal. I would not try a loose colony of rabbits.

Yes, I read this alot. The internet seems dividided - 70% of stories claiming it results in disaster, 30% in paradise with the happiest bunnies ever.

The idea of meat rabbits is growing on me (as well as some cute bunnies running about making my kids happy).

But I have little interest in individual caging. I will likely build out the run as per my original specs (ie, easily usable as a coop), making a few easy to remove mods for rabbits, and if rabbits don't go well I'll convert to chicken coop. Maybe build a small hutch to keep a couple as pet rabbits and either sell or cull the rest. And if the colony goes well, then keep it.

My wife has become fond of having a smaller chicken hoop subdivision plan anyway, as she wants to have a small flock of a heritage chicken breed (she is still deciding which). My vote is Dorking but I have no vote in this. I enjoy the planning, digging, and building, and that's my role.

 

[Newyorkrita]

It will be quite the set up.

 

[poultryprofessor]

I'm a big fan of hoop coops and I'm working on a comprehensive guide to building hoop houses for chickens, so I definitely have some thoughts.

Before we talk about hoop coops, I want to point you in a somewhat different direction for your chicken moat/enclosed garden plan. I recently saw a YouTube video of a couple building a chicken moat around their future orchard. It sounds like you plan to enclose less total area than they did, but I think their video is worth a watch.

I think their design of two lengths of welded wire fencing could work well. They used a graduated field fence (like this), but you can also use something with tighter spacing if you desired (like this). The entire thing can be built and supported on t-posts and it looks pretty clean. They did include some cattle panel shade areas which were also supported with t-posts.

This design should also cost less to build. From your rough sketch, it looks like you would need something like 28 cattle panels to construct all four sides of your moat. That adds up - that would cost about $700 just in cattle panels before you've secured them to anything. Another thing to consider with cattle panels is that the spacing between the ribs is pretty big. Chickens and chicken-eating-creatures can get through them if you don't cover them in something with a tighter mesh (like hardware cloth). So, that would add more cost to the project.

If my math is right, you could fence the same area with 240' of field fence or weld wire. You can buy 300 ft of 48" high field fence for ~$150. Want something taller? You can get 100ft of 60" high 2x4 weld wire for $100 or 72" high 2x4 weld wire for $130. Just something to think about. If you feel like you need a top to protect your birds or keep your birds in, you could run some type of netting over the top - just consider the potential for snow/ice loads in winter.

Whatever you go with, make sure you also install gates of a sufficient size to get any equipment you might need into the garden area. Don't just think about today - think about the long-term project.




Anyway, thoughts on hoop coops...

Here are the first two hoop coops we built here at the university. We used a frame because these coops need to be mobile, but I would probably use a frame even if I wasn't planning to move them. Cattle panels are very "springy" for lack of a better word. That's part of what gives them structure - the cattle panel wants to straighten out, but it is held in an arch by the frame. I can say these hoop coops have held up to some serious abuse on our part. They've been picked up by the wind when we forgot to anchor them down and are still in use months later - they just look a little more disheveled. We have had to replace tarps (wire is hard on tarps).

Another thought as I'm remembering the build process...

Cattle panels still move around a decent amount if you just secure the bottom and don't have support for the upper portion. Even after securing the two panels together with hog rings, they still wobbled a lot until we got them secured to the door frame and the rear upright. With your plans, I'm not sure how you would actually support them. You might get to watch them do the "wave" which could be fun.

I may have more thoughts later, but I will leave you with this book for now. Hopefully something in here helps.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

As someone using woven wire (4'x330') graduated field fence (Red Brand, if anyone cares), I can say with 100% certainty that it was necessary to attach another fencing material to it to keep my birds from going right thru it. Even now, I use a 2' tall plastic tight opening "net" attached to the fence between my two runs to keep my "babies" (7 weeks +/-) from simply walking from run to run, my somewhat larger birds (12 weeks +/-) can hop up and squeeze thru the upper openings. The full grown birds can not.

Whatever you decide, some amount of welded wire will be necessary for predator protection and containment both.

 

[poultryprofessor]

As someone using woven wire (4'x330') graduated field fence (Red Brand, if anyone cares), I can say with 100% certainty that it was necessary to attach another fencing material to it to keep my birds from going right thru it. Even now, I use a 2' tall plastic tight opening "net" attached to the fence between my two runs to keep my "babies" (7 weeks +/-) from simply walking from run to run, my somewhat larger birds (12 weeks +/-) can hop up and squeeze thru the upper openings. The full grown birds can not.

Whatever you decide, some amount of welded wire will be necessary for predator protection and containment both.

I'm glad someone has personal experience with the graduated field fence and chickens. I can't say I'm surprised that chickens went through it. Good to know before someone tries it.

I know the YouTube couple's primary goal was keeping deer out of the orchard, so they may find that it doesn't work for their chickens and just scrap that part of their plan or modify it.

 

[Krugerrand]

I live in Oregon... we had ice and wind this year, but generally no real weather issues other than a long rainy season.

I was avoiding going into detail about my 'master plan' because I didn't want to accidentally derail the thread, but the reason my run is going to be so large is because it is theoretically stage 1 of a huge chicken moat.

Long term (as in, I might give the first run a year to test it out.)

1: build coop with a 30 foot run or so (exact size based on not having to cut materials).

2: build another run off coop going at 90' angle (coop becomes corner)

3: eventually finish the other side of the square with 2 more runs. (Runs touch at inner corner, leaving a 7x7 or 8x8) empty square to fill...

4: use those 4 corners for... 1 or 2 coops (depending on whether I want separate flocks), an entrance, a storage shed (with smaller chicken tunnel allowing access around).

(It will be constructed near a well, and would have a well outlet inside the garden area.)

Actually, might as well sketch it... attaching sketch.

This came to me in a fever dream while struggling with the cost of chicken moats. Doing it piecemeal, and not needing to frame the run vertically are huge benefits.

Has construction begun on this? I'm curious to see what you come up with!

 

[affacat]

Has construction begun on this? I'm curious to see what you come up with!

Sadly, no. We were planning on being mid-build right now but the price of materials skyrocketed. We simply don't have the budget... we are debating building a single coop/run following this design and keeping it modular (ie, add on at our leisure) but we have an existing (subpar) setup the previous owner built that is, well, free.

We are sick of the old setup though, and are discussing biting the bullet and building it next month. Assuming lumber doesn't go up even more.

 

[affacat]

I'm a big fan of hoop coops and I'm working on a comprehensive guide to building hoop houses for chickens, so I definitely have some thoughts.

Before we talk about hoop coops, I want to point you in a somewhat different direction for your chicken moat/enclosed garden plan. I recently saw a YouTube video of a couple building a chicken moat around their future orchard. It sounds like you plan to enclose less total area than they did, but I think their video is worth a watch.

I think their design of two lengths of welded wire fencing could work well. They used a graduated field fence (like this), but you can also use something with tighter spacing if you desired (like this). The entire thing can be built and supported on t-posts and it looks pretty clean. They did include some cattle panel shade areas which were also supported with t-posts.

This design should also cost less to build. From your rough sketch, it looks like you would need something like 28 cattle panels to construct all four sides of your moat. That adds up - that would cost about $700 just in cattle panels before you've secured them to anything. Another thing to consider with cattle panels is that the spacing between the ribs is pretty big. Chickens and chicken-eating-creatures can get through them if you don't cover them in something with a tighter mesh (like hardware cloth). So, that would add more cost to the project.

If my math is right, you could fence the same area with 240' of field fence or weld wire. You can buy 300 ft of 48" high field fence for ~$150. Want something taller? You can get 100ft of 60" high 2x4 weld wire for $100 or 72" high 2x4 weld wire for $130. Just something to think about. If you feel like you need a top to protect your birds or keep your birds in, you could run some type of netting over the top - just consider the potential for snow/ice loads in winter.

Whatever you go with, make sure you also install gates of a sufficient size to get any equipment you might need into the garden area. Don't just think about today - think about the long-term project.




Anyway, thoughts on hoop coops...

Here are the first two hoop coops we built here at the university. We used a frame because these coops need to be mobile, but I would probably use a frame even if I wasn't planning to move them. Cattle panels are very "springy" for lack of a better word. That's part of what gives them structure - the cattle panel wants to straighten out, but it is held in an arch by the frame. I can say these hoop coops have held up to some serious abuse on our part. They've been picked up by the wind when we forgot to anchor them down and are still in use months later - they just look a little more disheveled. We have had to replace tarps (wire is hard on tarps).

View attachment 2618350

Another thought as I'm remembering the build process...

Cattle panels still move around a decent amount if you just secure the bottom and don't have support for the upper portion. Even after securing the two panels together with hog rings, they still wobbled a lot until we got them secured to the door frame and the rear upright. With your plans, I'm not sure how you would actually support them. You might get to watch them do the "wave" which could be fun.

I may have more thoughts later, but I will leave you with this book for now. Hopefully something in here helps.

Hmmm, a lot to process. Our plans were on hold due to budget/inflation (and more, below), but I appreciate some of your cost saving measures. I just need to do more research on materials before commenting.

Regarding tops/protection, our primary predator seems to be hawks. There are a pair that circle the general area daily. Coyote are also in the area (hear them at night, sometimes) so we need to protect against them. And we need to keep rats out.

That said, despite the hawks, we are rethinking our needs - in part because of budget, in part because all of our neighbors free range. As such, we've been free ranging our chickens across our property as well (over an acre). This has been going mostly well... we are down one chicken, but its possible the goofball just got lost and taken in by another neighbor. One of our neighbors have never lost a chicken to a hawk, but has a sizable contingent of roosters keeping watch.

All this to say, with the rising cost of materials, it's become hard to justify building them such a compound when free ranging seems viable.