2 yr old rooster has gone psycho

[chooks4life]

This is a good thread! If the birds have a good balanced diet for their age, any individual who needs additional nutrients of any sort IS NOT parent material! Some younglings have genetic issues that cause them to need more than normal care/ suppliments/ etc; they are not worth adding to the breeding flock. Survival with extra care is fine; reproducing the problem in the flock is a really bad idea. Mary

It's a good point, that animals requiring TLC are generally not breeder material, but there's a lot of grey areas there, especially because it can be very hard to determine why an animal is not coping on the same diet others are.

I'm not actually disagreeing with you nor trying to 'shoot down' what you said at all, just trying to illustrate some of those grey areas.

Some very commonly used (and over-used) artificial fertilizers can prevent uptake of certain vital nutrients by up to 100%; when the farms you're getting their grains (etc) from have repeatedly used those artificial fertilizers, the nutrient level or availability often drops correspondingly and so your chooks can literally be malnourished on what was once a 'balanced/ complete diet', despite testing showing the nutrient levels. They may be there, but unavailable. It's no use putting more and more nutrients into the soil when they're 'bound' there and don't make it into the plants in available form. Those plants aren't truly nourishing for any sort of creature that eats them. Also, despite some claims about synthetic nutrients, they do not act the same in either the soil, the plant, or the end consumer of the plant products. Some individuals do better on synthetic nutrients than others, who have intolerance for it. By the same token some individuals have intolerance for more natural diets.

Since many nutrient deficits take years to show, even decades, the issues may only be revealed beyond the average cull-by date, or in the offspring of the affected individual. (As the number of deficiency-caused spraddled chicks shows, for one example. When they're hatching spraddled, it's a maternal issue). Some issues can take generations to show, particularly those caused by certain chemical exposures and genetic damages due to such events. You can be blaming yourself or your birds for something which happened to ancestors of those birds which you've never even met.

A slight overdose or underdose of any nutrients, synthetic or natural, affects other nutrients since they are processed in conjunction with one another, and used in the body in conjunction as well. A slight overdose of something in the diet can lead to your birds showing deficiency issues and for all you'd know, it could have just been due to an untraceable error somewhere in the feed's background, not due to any fault in the birds.

On premixed diets they can't naturally compensate for any of this, they just have to put up with it and try to cope.

Also, a lot of things can happen to an animal which can cause it to require some TLC for no fault of its own; almost all of those things are human faults, not the animals' and not due to random chance either. I've bred animals whose lives depended on extra care at some point or another and found their offspring are fine, even sometimes superior for the hardship their parents experienced, both physically and mentally.

That said, if you have a flock which cannot cope on the diet it's on, and it's a long term problem, looking into more info on nutrition and breed tendencies is probably necessary... Some breeds commonly fail to cope on normal diets.

Best wishes.

 

[Rhandi74]

Update on blizzard... He has not attempted to attack anyone after the first occurrence. He is happy, healthy, and thriving without vitamins.

 

[chooks4life]

Update on blizzard... He has not attempted to attack anyone after the first occurrence. He is happy, healthy, and thriving without vitamins.

Without supplementary vitamins, obviously. With no vitamins whatsoever, he'd be dead. Haha, I'm just nitpicking, I'm not serious...

Best wishes with him, and please continue to let us know how it goes in future, if you're able and willing.

There's always the exception to the rule; it's too great a risk for me to gamble on that exception occurring with the amount of roosters that I keep but doesn't mean it's not a possibility.

 

[ChicKat]

I've raised this bird from a chick, and he has always been VERY protective of my two hens. He has saved them from numerous hawk attacks over the past two years, to the point where the hawks don't even come around anymore, nor do stray cats. .. or anyone else for that matter. lol. Anyway, he has always been sassy and has his aggressive moments, (of course), but has never full out attacked me until today.

I've read posts here before about taming a rooster, and have used the advice of holding him until he calms. This has always seemed to do the trick, and he even (quite often) has his loving moments of being snuggly, sitting on my lap and letting me pet him.

TODAY, he has taken to attacking me everytime I go in the yard or go near him. I had to use a blanket and throw it over him just to pick him up, and even after holding him until he calmed down, he went right back to it as soon as I released him! The last time, he bit my leg, and I'll tell you what, the "holding" him nonsense was OVER. I kicked at him, which only made him more aggressive and he came at me full force. ..neck feathers spiked out, and coming at me with his spurs like he was going to fight me to the death! I locked him in the coop after that episode, which he hates, but even after his Time Out, he went right back to it and came at me again.

Mama is NOT HAVING THIS. Honestly, I have always adored him (Until today, that is!!), and really do not want to get rid of him. My hens adore him as well. I'm hoping he snaps out of it but I just don't know..

Any suggestions on what to do with my seemingly possessed rooster?? Has anyone else experienced this drastic change in behavior after two years?

Although I know that this thread is old, recently it has come to light that the problems with aggressive roosters could be vision.

Most people think it is 'attitude'. It's possible that the rooster in attempt to protect his flock will charge at everything that is large and moving near his hens...or moving period.

sweet dreamin' suggested using a squirt bottle of water. I have switched to this with a rooster who is older and overly protective. If he looks at me wrong - he gets a face full. To my way of thinking trying to out rooster him - holding him down, beating him - locking him away solo and all other domination behaviors were only temporary. squirt bottle works and doesn't do him any harm. Pretty soon ...just the sound of the squirt bottle will inspire him to walk the other direction.

Some research uncovered by a friend indicates that on day 17 of incubation it is crucial for good development of the eyesight -- especially in roosters to have some light on the eggs. So if you incubate in darkness, or if you have dark or blue eggs it would be something to consider to help the embryonic development of the rooster's sight.

This research hasn't been verified - yet it makes some common sense -- since the hen leaves the nest regularly during chick development. The 'cavity nesting birds' tend to have white eggs, and birds that have eggs more in the open (South America - Araucanas for example) - have blue shells. This may have been a development to protect the eggs from too much UV light - while the hen is off the nest.

food for thought at least. HTH

 

[EricandJeri]

Wow! I learned more about roosters from reading your post than from anything else I've read! Thanks!

 

[aleta hungarian]

Thank you all so much for your rooster stories on their changing aggressive attitudes. Espically the two year old roo. Mine just turned one year and is doing like all of you have said, some days go by and ok, then starts the dances and shoulder moves, i use a small boat paddles and push him away, or if he keeps it up, i chase him till he hides. I sound like all of you wonderful people, trying to make sense of it all. I have him by accident, a roo started as a hen, i thought. Was so glad, have always had roos and never ever have i seen this, but nothing stays the same. Have a wonderful Easter Holiday, it the season for eggs and rebirth. Thank Goodness. Will have to bite the bullet soon. Thanks again. aleta hungarian.

 

[Ganjaroo]

Hello everyone! Sorry I wandered off for so long, but I had some computer issues and going online just wasn't worth the aggravation. Anyhoo, I just thought I'd pop in and give anyone who may be interested an update on my feisty boy.

I agree with the above posters who say how much they have learned from this fantastic thread, and am very thankful to all of you who have contributed your knowledge and experience. I read MOUNTAINS of material when I first started raising chickens, and I've never seen such helpful info on roosters all in one place. I appreciate each and every one of you for sharing your rooster stories!

I have used the knowledge here to work with my roo, and also learned what I was doing wrong. Now keep in mind, that I have also learned that there are LEVELS of aggression, and as I have said before, my roo is not the mindless, violent type who will attack anything that moves. I've had a rooster like that, the wild look in his eye, the hateful/aggressive demeanor, grabbing and throwing down the hens, ..and he showed his evilness from a very young age so I re-homed him pronto. MY roo, the one discussed in this thread, was the opposite. Lovable with me, the perfect gentleman with the hens, and VERY protective of them. Still, as Chooks pointed out to me, the signs of his coming aggression were there, I just laughed them off as his usual funny antics! Chooks was SPOT ON in describing the early signs of an aggressive roo, so if anyone reading this interested, Chooks first post is the one to read. ALSO, if you have a 'workable' roo, (yes, they DO exist. ), the posts from Centrarchid gave me very helpful tools in correcting, or at least GREATLY improving my roos bad behavior.

Now, onward with the update! In my case, going after him with any kind of aggression only made him MORE aggressive. This includes chasing him, kicking at him, yelling at him, ..any of it. Taking Centrarchids advice, when Shell, (yes, I thought he was a girl as a chick..), came at me with attitude, I just stood there calmly. No running, no fear reaction, no reaction whatsoever other than calm, ..and low and behold, ..it worked. I did use a stick held against my leg in case he decided to peck me, which he did peck the stick the first couple of times, yet after practicing this for a week or so he would just stop and walk away. Sometimes he would walk away muttering chicken obscenities at me, ..but regardless, .. walk away he did.
As time went on, and still practicing the 'no fear' technique, he came to realize that coming at me with bad intent would be pointless, and it was I who actually ruled the roost. I also used a large dog crate to put him in for a short 'time out' when he was acting extra feisty, which worked wonders as well. I have learned through all of this, that my rooster COULD actually think and decide to change his attitude, and I've seen him do it countless times. Now, we all live here in relative peace and harmony, and he still, as he always did when in his lovable mode, likes to sit on my lap like a lapdog.
Yes, he does still act aggressive at times, and YES, those of you who said he always would were correct, yet he has not full out attacked me again. .. not since I first made this post.

Also, I must add, that I am not a breeder, nor do I raise chickens for meat. My birds are basically pets, and since I have no children here and no-one was in danger of getting hurt (except me!), ..I was in a good position to work with my roo, and am very happy I did! He always did have FAR more good traits than bad, and it was so worth the effort.

Unfortunately, I must also add that last month, my roo came down with a
breathing disorder, and no-one can seem to figure out what is wrong with him. We've treated for infection, fungus, worms, and nothing has helped. The vet, the ONLY vet I could find around here that would see a chicken, .. believes that he may have an enlarged heart or organ issue, and is quite certain that it will soon end his life. However, aside from the labored breathing which goes from frighteningly intense to hardly noticeable, he is doing his usual things, making me laugh with his never-ending antics, and is so far, happily living his life in spite of this mystery ailment.
So, please think positive thoughts for my beloved roo. I'm out of options, definitely out of cash! ..and I'm now just hoping for the best.

Thanks again to all of you, and my apologies for the long-winded update!

 

[chooks4life]

Good to get some more info shared. Thanks for the updates.

It's a good point about intelligence, they're rarely as stupid as we tend to think they are. Some are definitely able to reconsider their behavior and change. I think the smartest adapt before ever needing any real training, some animals are just good at spotting the status quo and fitting in. Some, however... Utterly unable, just plain reactive; an absence of brain is about what I'd describe it as. I reckon that's human error at work, nothing that completely stupid survives long in the wild. But breeding mistakes generations back generally can't be erased in one generation or in one animal's lifetime.

A rooster's chances of responding to any attempted retraining is largely based on his cognitive coherence and capacity of perception, both of which are often obviously lacking in very anxious, aggressive, and obsessive/neurotic chooks. Which makes sense since all those negative traits are common symptoms of extremely common issues which cause brain/nerve damage, such as malnutrition and toxicity from a broad spectrum of sources, (B vitamin deficiency and heavy metal toxicosis being two examples). Such behavioral changes are common byproducts of brain damage and are found in many species including humans.

Aggressive roosters in general, in my experience, (and the same is true for aggressive hens and chicks as well) are mainly running on inherited defective instinct or abnormal behavioral patterns with a lack of 'higher' thinking (lol) and thus lack the intelligence to curb their own behaviors for the most part, and their often obsessive behavior can be impossible to train out because they lack sufficient cognition. You certainly can't beat it out of them. The negative pattern is usually very strong and overrides normal instincts and training more often than not. It also overrides self-preservation instincts as most people who've tried aversive training know.

I always found increasing average intelligence in all my animals is absolutely key to easy management and curbing all behavioral issues irrespective of species or history or genetics or training etc... But I still cull against bad traits because it's the quickest and most guaranteed way to remove them. There are points at which one has to consider things such as the value of the animal and the risk to others it represents, and if your situation makes it unwise to persevere with that animal, best to be rid of it.

I had some roosters years ago that were simply too dumb to figure out how to walk out of an open doorway.

(Their eyesight was fine, they spotted birds of prey at great distances and everything inbetween too, the issue was basic comprehension and fixation-prone mindsets, in this case inherited from both sides of the family line).

I have always found excessive flightiness/spackiness, vocalization and aggression are three traits very often found in conjunction in most truly stupid chooks. (Also all common in brain damaged animals). These roosters had all of those traits. There could be no training them out of their shortcomings in any area because they were too plain stupid.

They were raised in the same cage from day one, the door opened every day for free ranging, food and water always in the cage, but could only figure out how to leave the cage if led by the hens. Once they hit puberty they started keeping some distance from the main roosters, which led to them being in the rearguard of the flock, among the last to leave the cage. Whereas all other roosters and hens and chicks knew the doorway and routine off by heart, these boys needed their hands held, basically.

Once the first chooks out of the cage walked around the side and these boys could see them through the mesh, they stopped heading for the door and began to walk back and forth, back and forth nonstop, facing the mesh wall between them and the flock. They got 'stuck' like that, a meter from the wide open doorway, through which they could see paddock (no visual illusion of a wall), with food and water a meter or two behind them; they would stay there pacing back and forth in a state of mild panic for hours, until I 'saved' them, by going in the cage and picking them up and putting them outside.

I originally thought they'd figure it out, so I left them, but they never did figure it out and just paced back and forth with their beaks about an inch from the mesh, getting hungry and thirsty and stressed. Talk about a mental glitch!

Shooing them towards the door didn't work, they would panic as I approached, rushing back and forth quicker and quicker, trying to stick their heads through the mesh, sometimes crying out in fear, not looking at me and sort of vaguely identifying me as a predator despite being at all other times calm enough around humans... They had to be physically removed from the mesh wall they'd become fixated on. Pushing them almost out the door would result in a terrified break to get back to the patch of mesh they'd been pacing against, even after the other chooks had long moved on and they couldn't see them there anymore.

Some chooks are genuinely deficient in intelligence to the point of being only vaguely functional. It's unfortunate but after trying to help them I ended up culling them out, because it was often very heritable, (I did indeed test) and culling against excessive stupidity I have found very important in controlling overall negative behaviors and the risk presented by those traits to flock members and humans alike. Smart chooks in my experience don't tend to be aggressive. Some can be of course but you can save an awful lot of time culling the dumb ones rather than breeding them.

Best wishes.

 

[Ganjaroo]

Yes, just as with humans, some are most definitely smarter than others. I got lucky in the respect that my roo is of a higher intelligence. In fact, so intelligent, that he figured out how to slide the lock and get out of the dog crate! He was quite proud of this accomplishment, and strutted around with this "Ha! Take THAT, lady!" attitude as if he had outsmarted me. Then, after I put a better lock on the crate and he was put in there for a 'time out', he'd act like he enjoyed it in there as to let me know I did not win. lol. After awhile, he'd start to coo at me and act all sweet so I'd let him out. The bird definitely knows how to work it. ;-)

I must also say, that when I first decided to raise chickens, I did it on a whim knowing nothing of lineage and inherited traits. My birds were hatched in an incubator as a school project where I work, and so began my learning process. I remember being absolutely stunned at how violent some of these 'cute little chicks' were in trying to peck each others eyes out. So, I tried to choose the chicks who were seemingly trying to avoid this gang violence, and for the most part, it seems I chose wisely.
Anyway, the learning process never stops, and I am continually amazed at the intelligence of these chickens and what they know just from instinct, as they had no adult chickens around to teach them anything. They each have their own personalities, and, also surprising to me at the time, a vast vocabulary and language which I now understand fluently. So much I have learned from observing these delightful creatures, and have decided I will own and raise chickens for the rest of my life!

I'm curious to see the difference, if any, in getting my next chicks from a breeder. Chicks who are hatched naturally instead of incubated, and chicks who are not from 'farm mutts'. We shall see. To me, these 'mutt' chickens are just as happy to be alive as any other, yet I do believe that my roo's health issues came from an inherited defect. I'm going to wait and see how things turn out with him before I get any new chicks, yet after that, as always, the learning process shall continue..

 

[chooks4life]

Sounds great.

Though I must say, I have almost exclusively mutts because of how many bad traits both psychological and physical I kept finding in purebred, breeder and hatchery stock, lol.

Sounds like you chose wisely with your first little nuggets, the happiness and safety (or lack thereof) of the flock and the flock-owner really does depend a lot on what traits you allow to breed and which you disallow.

It's a bit saddening sometimes to hear people at their wit's ends, traumatized by the viciousness and brutality in their flocks, thinking it's just inherent and inescapable 'chicken nature' (that one aggravates me, it's so ignorant and causes so much pain through promoting resignation to a false 'fact')... No need for such horrible experiences for the chooks or the people.

Best wishes with your flock.