20 week old Blue/Black Ameraucana or EE?

[keesmom]

Well, if it is gold leakage it isn't odd that it popped up in both males. Males tend to show leakage while females generally do not. The gold would be from whatever genes are under the black. If it is leakage that doesn't mean they are EEs. Have you posted on the Ameraucana thread to see what they think? I will say leakage is hard to breed out.

Here's a Faverolles cockerel with silver leakage.

And the females from that same hatch

 

[back2simplelife]

Well, if it is gold leakage it isn't odd that it popped up in both males. Males tend to show leakage while females generally do not. The gold would be from whatever genes are under the black. If it is leakage that doesn't mean they are EEs. Have you posted on the Ameraucana thread to see what they think?

Here's a Faverolles cockerel with silver leakage.

And the females from that same hatch

Thanks. I will do that and see what they say.

 

[KieksterChicken]

I think what is upsetting Back2.. is that ..if I'm understanding this right... he bought fertile eggs from a breeder that promised show quality birds which means SOP birds, and he hatched them using his own broody (and a disproportionate number of them turned out to be roos. Unfortunately hatching eggs you take the chance of getting a lot of roos) The main prob is that the majority of the chicks of various breeds that hatched are either off SOP or totally the wrong color from what he ordered. And not sure she is willing to take back the majority of the roos to replace with pullets or give him the correctly colored pullets to replace the ones he got that were wrong . Thing is, if those Ameraucana roos turn out to be not SOP..which at this point they appear to be (off SOP because of the leakage), then they are off SOP and not showable and their only value is in the blue egg gene they carry. An off SOP Ameraucana is not an Ameraucana but an Easter Egger. An EE is a bird who's parents carried the blue egg gene but the bird itself does not match the APA SOP for an Ameraucana. Sometimes an Easter Egger is a mutt and sometimes it's an Ameraucana/Araucana that doesn't fit the SOP.

 

[back2simplelife]

I think what is upsetting Back2.. is that ..if I'm understanding this right... he bought fertile eggs from a breeder that promised show quality birds which means SOP birds, and he hatched them using his own broody (and a disproportionate number of them turned out to be roos. Unfortunately hatching eggs you take the chance of getting a lot of roos) The main prob is that the majority of the chicks of various breeds that hatched are either off SOP or totally the wrong color from what he ordered. And not sure she is willing to take back the majority of the roos to replace with pullets or give him the correctly colored pullets to replace the ones he got that were wrong . Thing is, if those Ameraucana roos turn out to be not SOP..which at this point they appear to be (off SOP because of the leakage), then they are off SOP and not showable and their only value is in the blue egg gene they carry. An off SOP Ameraucana is not an Ameraucana but an Easter Egger. An EE is a bird who's parents carried the blue egg gene but the bird itself does not match the APA SOP for an Ameraucana. Sometimes an Easter Egger is a mutt and sometimes it's an Ameraucana/Araucana that doesn't fit the SOP.

Yes and no. I bought 12 chicks in Nov. 6 BBS Marans and 6 "Purebred Black Ameraucanas". I thought I had done my homework and we traveled 2 hrs to get them. Her website states "as a poultry provider we strive to acquire and provide the finest quality poultry with the best conformation & temperament to offer to our buyers. WE BREED TO THE STANDARD ON ALL BREEDS.". I never read one bad thing about this breeder. Saw pictures of all her beautiful birds on her website, She was wonderful to talk to, ect.

So, with the Marans, I TOTALLY understand that roos can be high within a hatch (thus the temp up even 1/2 degree, ect) that happens.. but out of those 6 BBS there are only two splash. The others are all copper. which when we asked she said she has never had that happen before. Those were suppose to be a splash roo over blue hens (NO copper!) When we bought them she said that the two lighter would be the splash and the darker ones would be blue but may have a splash of white. Instead they are blue and black coppers. Like I said though.. these made me a lil bitter..but things happen and I got over it. .at first anyway. I almost felt like they were maybe sexed at a day old or something. I know she has been raising chickens a LONG time. I found it odd that 4 of the 6 had copper and that they were all roos but, I let it go until I kept watching my "amers" change.

Now, on to the Amers. These were suppose to be from her Blue/Black pen. Black roo covering blue hens. They were hatched from a broody but she grabbed them after hatch and I bought them as "purebreed black Amers". Out of those 6, I have 4 beautiful black pullets and 2 black roos with what is starting to appear as gold patterns showing on their wings and their heads. BOTH roos are the same. So, because there is such a thin line between Amers and Easter Eggers and Black is Black, Silver is Silver, ect. These no longer are classified as Amers but are now Easter Eggers. :-(

The fact that this breeder acted not only like I wasn't talking about HER chicks.. even though she remembers us AND the chicks. And the fact that she said she has never had anything like either of these happen before leaves me with a stumped look on my face. If I was the breeder, I would want to know if there was leakage in one of my pens.. ESPECIALLY this bad in my amers! I would have at least tried to make things right by offering a correct roo, a pullet, chicks, eggs or SOMETHING instead of making them feel like they had no idea what they were talking about as these things just don't happen to her chickens. I know personally I would NOT use or recommend this breeder to anyone. I only wish there was a way to let others who are searching and doing their homework to find TRUE Amers so they aren't crushed like we are. Where we live it is super hard to find TRUE Amers. Sorting through Easter egger after Easter egger due to being so close to a major hatchery. I THOUGHT I was going about everything correctly.. guess I missed a few things. Live and Learn.. and now try and find homes for a ton of roos.. LOL

 

[KieksterChicken]

lol. I really don't see that you did anything wrong there..really. You did your homework which is probably the best anyone can do. Ty for the clarification. Bad experience for sure. I did some searching online and found this on the Ameraucana Breeders Club Website: .... even if a bird meets an Ameraucana standard breed description, but doesn't meet a variety description or breed true at least 50% of the time it is considered an Easter Egg chicken.
So, after reading this I am thinking some of her Ameraucanas aren't breeding true 50% of the time and you got some of the chicks from her not 50% of the time birds. Taking it further even a pairing that breeds true most of the time will occasionally throw some off SOP offspring. The fact that she said she doesn't have any Easter Eggers anymore says that she did have some, and probably a lot in her lines in the past which I suppose is common when someone is starting up and trying to maintain a pure bred line of Ameraucanas. If an Ameraucana doesn't breed true then it's off SOP and considered an Easter Egger..so no matter what she says she will have Easter Eggers in her lines because all Ameraucana breeders will have them in their lines because Ameraucanas won't always breed true 100% of the time..lol. So she gave you chicks that she would have had to cull out of her line because they aren't SOP. As to whether she knew her pairing of black over blue was a bad combo or not..who knows..she won't tell but she may have gotten your roos from a new pairing that probably proved to be a bad one or else she new right off the bat the 2 she was giving you were culls and she depended on the fact you were 2 hours out and probably wouldn't bother to come back if your birds were wrong. There are lots of scenarios.... The same probably goes for the other birds you got. She obviously is either not keeping a good track of what eggs come from what pairing or else she deliberately gave you the wrong ones..maybe culls too..who knows. I'm sure she breeds to the Standard but that doesn't mean all her birds will be SOP. Her advertising is misleading to say the least. I'm really sorry to see how many problems this breeder caused you.
You probably should still ask about your birds in the Ameraucana thread on this site like Keesmom suggested. Let them know what happened, post pics of your roos and see if they can help. Maybe they may be able to clarify this :
"...even if a bird meets an Ameraucana standard breed description, but doesn't meet a variety description or breed true at least 50% of the time it is considered an Easter Egg chicken." in relation to your birds. I'm sure they will be able to help you better than me. Maybe they can steer you to a legit Ameraucana breeder in your area too?

 

[back2simplelife]

THANK YOU for taking the time to understand me! Through my frustration I am sure it was hard.. lol. That is exactly what I have read and have been told by other Amer breeders.. sigh. I do agree. I will post them there even though I already know they are EEers. Sadly I have been looking for an Amer breeder around here and can't find a legit one. Us being so close to a huge hatchery I think has overly confused ppl not to mention has spread EEs in all directions around me. I do know some not only super friendly and helpful but have beautiful Amers, breeders. So for me the next trip for Amers I will travel that 4 hrs and save myself frustration and heartache not to mention $! I guess I will chalk this up to another live and learn experience!

 

[Eleisha]

To try to look on the bright side if you wanted to breed the Ameraucans you may have wanted to replace the rooster anyways. If you bought them together they may be siblings. Its easier to replace/find one rooster than a bunch of hens. Also you can check out what's for sale from the breeder's club @ ameraucan.org/forum Since you're in Texas look up Paul Smith.

 

[back2simplelife]

awww good point!!

 

[back2simplelife]

so sad! I talked with a gal tonight.. didnt even mention the breeders name and she knew exactly who I was talking about as guess this breeder has sold not only "off breeds" but also sick chicks. I see no negative feedback anywhere! How can one go about warning others so this doesn't happen to them?

 

[MadabtChickens]

Posting the breeder's name here would be a start. I know there are "bad egg" groups on Facebook that list bad sellers/breeder and buyers. I'm not sure where else you could put this information out for others to be warned. Sorry you had to go through this.